That's why I never like Astarion...

[NeoOne]

I am playing as a hero saving the Sword Coast and this vampire all he wants is for himself is to become the Super Vampire. I just completed his quest line. I hate this character....I told him tough ♥♥♥♥...I an't helping him to become the super vampire. For one thing, I get nothing in return. Two, I am not even in any relationship with him. Why helping him killing all the spawns he helped created? I think the correct choice is not helping him.

[Quacksalber]

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Originally posted by Moonbane:

People are seriously too stiff-necked about Astarion, hah.

Yeah companions enjoying children being killed is a bit of deal breaker.

When does this happen?

[retsam1]

Originally posted by EH!:

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Yeah companions enjoying children being killed is a bit of deal breaker.

When does this happen?

Act 3, you learn that Astarion was compelled by his master to take children that belonged to the Gur people (you may have encountered 1 in act 1). Secretly under the mansion of the vampire lord, Cazador took the children and made them all vampires and kept them imprisoned as they wait to be sacrificed by Cazador for his vampire ascension ritual. Astarion didnt realize they'd been turned and depending on how you play him to that point he either is somewhat disgusted it happened or doesnt care(ie semi-good vs evil astarion to that point per your choices).

If your party kills cazador and you help Astarion ascend, obviously all those child vampires die.

If your party kills cazador and you dont help astarion to ascend, then the children are set free but you can later encounter some down in the sewers under the city with their parents trying to figure out what to do. The parents decide to take the children far down into the underdark to keep them away from others they may harm due to their nature now.

So either its a tragedy one way or a tragedy another way.

[Argonaut]

Originally posted by EH!:

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Yeah companions enjoying children being killed is a bit of deal breaker.

When does this happen?

Act 1. It's possible to get the snake to bite Arabella and Astarion approves of this and he approves of lying to her parents about it.

Here. Have a look at what gains his approval. He is a piece of garbage.
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Astarion

[The 13th Ghost Bunny]

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Originally posted by EH!:

When does this happen?

Act 1. It's possible to get the snake to bite Arabella and Astarion approves of this and he approves of lying to her parents about it.

Here. Have a look at what gains his approval. He is a piece of garbage.
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Astarion

He definitely likes the suffering of others. In my Dark Urge playthrough he approved of me murdering Gale by cutting his hand off, he even made a positive comment about it. lol.

[Quacksalber]

Originally posted by retsam1:

Originally posted by EH!:

When does this happen?

Act 3, you learn that Astarion was compelled by his master to take children that belonged to the Gur people (you may have encountered 1 in act 1). Secretly under the mansion of the vampire lord, Cazador took the children and made them all vampires and kept them imprisoned as they wait to be sacrificed by Cazador for his vampire ascension ritual. Astarion didnt realize they'd been turned and depending on how you play him to that point he either is somewhat disgusted it happened or doesnt care(ie semi-good vs evil astarion to that point per your choices).

If your party kills cazador and you help Astarion ascend, obviously all those child vampires die.

If your party kills cazador and you dont help astarion to ascend, then the children are set free but you can later encounter some down in the sewers under the city with their parents trying to figure out what to do. The parents decide to take the children far down into the underdark to keep them away from others they may harm due to their nature now.

So either its a tragedy one way or a tragedy another way.

Oh that. I do not count that, as the kids even say themselves they cannot be trusted, and I think the good choice here is supposed to be killing them anyway, as some people have reported Paladins losing their oath if they set them free. There is no good solution to this situation imo, unfortunately. You can also do nothing and let the Gur deal with it.

[retsam1]

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Originally posted by EH!:

When does this happen?

Act 1. It's possible to get the snake to bite Arabella and Astarion approves of this and he approves of lying to her parents about it.

Here. Have a look at what gains his approval. He is a piece of garbage.
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Astarion

That's an evil play through choice by the player, so that feeds into that and working as intended. Astarion is rather pan-alignment shifting depending on what you opt (or dont opt) to do.

[Moonbane]

Originally posted by retsam1:

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Act 1. It's possible to get the snake to bite Arabella and Astarion approves of this and he approves of lying to her parents about it.

Here. Have a look at what gains his approval. He is a piece of garbage.
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Astarion

That's an evil play through choice by the player, so that feeds into that and working as intended. Astarion is rather pan-alignment shifting depending on what you opt (or dont opt) to do.

And that is something many people doesnt seem to grasp.

[retsam1]

Originally posted by EH!:

Originally posted by retsam1:

Act 3, you learn that Astarion was compelled by his master to take children that belonged to the Gur people (you may have encountered 1 in act 1). Secretly under the mansion of the vampire lord, Cazador took the children and made them all vampires and kept them imprisoned as they wait to be sacrificed by Cazador for his vampire ascension ritual. Astarion didnt realize they'd been turned and depending on how you play him to that point he either is somewhat disgusted it happened or doesnt care(ie semi-good vs evil astarion to that point per your choices).

If your party kills cazador and you help Astarion ascend, obviously all those child vampires die.

If your party kills cazador and you dont help astarion to ascend, then the children are set free but you can later encounter some down in the sewers under the city with their parents trying to figure out what to do. The parents decide to take the children far down into the underdark to keep them away from others they may harm due to their nature now.

So either its a tragedy one way or a tragedy another way.

Oh that. I do not count that, as the kids even say themselves they cannot be trusted, and I think the good choice here is supposed to be killing them anyway, as some people have reported Paladins losing their oath if they set them free. There is no good solution to this situation imo, unfortunately. You can also do nothing and let the Gur deal with it.

I disagree that the killing them is the good choice. Its a choice but the parents if you dont seem to prefer to kill them and thank you for reuniting them even if it means that they have to move deep into the under dark. But if you dont let astarion ascend but kill the children its iffy.

Interestingly enough when I encountered the children with their parents in the sewers after rescuing them, I accidently had lythander equiped and when the children started taking damage, the parent also aggro'd from it hehe.

[Quacksalber]

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Originally posted by EH!:

When does this happen?

Act 1. It's possible to get the snake to bite Arabella and Astarion approves of this and he approves of lying to her parents about it.

Here. Have a look at what gains his approval. He is a piece of garbage.
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Astarion

It's just another example of him not making any sense, as he approves of kindness to animals yet claims to only feed on animals and enemies, and in Act 3 he approves of helping a kid, too. If he was really that evil by default, he'd go around snacking on kids you come across.

I think they tried to make him appealing to both good and evil players and hence he comes across as a confused mess. If he only approved of evil stuff, he'd be a second Minthara (as in evil path exclusive, not that she only approves of evil stuff, idk that), yet at the same time he has to approve of that stuff so he's viable for evil playthroughs. That is how I read it anyway. Not saying it's good.

Another thing I think is weird is that if you play as these characters, you can make them act completely differently. I admit I sometimes control Astarion to stop him being annoying. xD

[Argonaut]

Originally posted by retsam1:

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Act 1. It's possible to get the snake to bite Arabella and Astarion approves of this and he approves of lying to her parents about it.

Here. Have a look at what gains his approval. He is a piece of garbage.
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Astarion

That's an evil play through choice by the player, so that feeds into that and working as intended. Astarion is rather pan-alignment shifting depending on what you opt (or dont opt) to do.

Top tier cope right there. Of course the evil character likes the evil player choices. He doesn't care about the good ones and he criticizes you over some of them as well.

Astarion is a piece of garbage. If he wasn't presented as a twink no one would be on his side.

[Moonbane]

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Originally posted by retsam1:

That's an evil play through choice by the player, so that feeds into that and working as intended. Astarion is rather pan-alignment shifting depending on what you opt (or dont opt) to do.

Top tier cope right there. Of course the evil character likes the evil player choices. He doesn't care about the good ones and he criticizes you over some of them as well.

Astarion is a piece of garbage. If he wasn't presented as a twink no one would be on his side.

You have no idea what you are talking about and clearly deserve the clown award.

[retsam1]

Originally posted by EH!:

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Act 1. It's possible to get the snake to bite Arabella and Astarion approves of this and he approves of lying to her parents about it.

Here. Have a look at what gains his approval. He is a piece of garbage.
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Astarion

It's just another example of him not making any sense, as he approves of kindness to animals yet claims to only feed on animals and enemies, and in Act 3 he approves of helping a kid, too. If he was really that evil by default, he'd go around snacking on kids you come across.

I think they tried to make him appealing to both good and evil players and hence he comes across as a confused mess. If he only approved of evil stuff, he'd be a second Minthara, yet at the same time he has to approve of that stuff so he's viable for evil playthroughs. That is how I read it anyway. Not saying it's good.

Another thing I think is weird is that if you play as these characters, you can make them act completely differently. I admit I sometimes control Astarion to stop him being annoying. xD

Again, your choices play a factor into which end of the spectrum his alignment shifts.

As for approving kindness to animals but feeding on them. Its really not any different than the spectrum of things with us non vampires and our dinner choices. Again all depends on your play choices(you can even have him kick that squirrel if memory serves.

Minthara is also someone interesting because they too do not necessarily have to be wholly evil(you can even do a playthrough where you dont lose karlach and wyll and keep her and have some minor redemption with her.

People think too for example(if we talk in terms of gods) that Bhaal would be considered chaotic evil(especially if you look at Orin) but he's actually in lore Neutral Evil.

Again Astarion and many of the characters are pan-alignment based and can be as vile or as redemptive as you choose.

[retsam1]

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Originally posted by retsam1:

That's an evil play through choice by the player, so that feeds into that and working as intended. Astarion is rather pan-alignment shifting depending on what you opt (or dont opt) to do.

Top tier cope right there. Of course the evil character likes the evil player choices. He doesn't care about the good ones and he criticizes you over some of them as well.

Astarion is a piece of garbage. If he wasn't presented as a twink no one would be on his side.

Your churlishness aside, Im addressing your inadequate understanding of the game allowing various character's alignments to have a spectrum of shifting vs being a 2 dimensional evil vs good only sort of dichotomy. And I could care less about his pan sexuality(as he, like many characters are pansexual also by design in the game to facilitate one's choose your own adventure choices).

All in all you're being a bit silly.

[Argonaut]

Originally posted by Moonbane:

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Top tier cope right there. Of course the evil character likes the evil player choices. He doesn't care about the good ones and he criticizes you over some of them as well.

Astarion is a piece of garbage. If he wasn't presented as a twink no one would be on his side.

You have no idea what you are talking about and clearly deserve the clown award.

I'd say it's always nice to be recognized by an established member of a community but given that you're a community of clowns I'm not sure the recognition is accurate.

Originally posted by retsam1:

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Top tier cope right there. Of course the evil character likes the evil player choices. He doesn't care about the good ones and he criticizes you over some of them as well.

Astarion is a piece of garbage. If he wasn't presented as a twink no one would be on his side.

Your churlishness aside, Im addressing your inadequate understanding of the game allowing various character's alignments to have a spectrum of shifting vs being a 2 dimensional evil vs good only sort of dichotomy. And I could care less about his pan sexuality(as he, like many characters are pansexual also by design in the game to facilitate one's choose your own adventure choices).

All in all you're being a bit silly.

And I'm saying your waving a wet blanket by not looking at the details. Regardless of this mechanic astarion always disapproves of you doing the heroic or altruistic deed and regularly chastises you for it. He also approves of you taking advantage of people and doing objectively evil things regardless of your player choices.

As an example Shadowheart also likes it when you lie to people but she enjoys you being cunning and still dislikes it when you lie to people to be evil or to be petty.

Like I said before being happy about children dying is a bit of deal breaker.

[Gloomseeker]

Originally posted by NeoOne:

I am playing as a hero saving the Sword Coast [...] For one thing, I get nothing in return.

Sounds pretty unheroic if what your guy cares about is getting something in return.

I hate to break it to you but your guy is no hero.