Broke my oath of the ancien while battling duergar slavers, wtf???

[Merlyn]

So I am in the underdark and I have to found someone called Nere. The gnomes are beaten to death and I decide to attack the duergard, I am an serment of the ancient paladin...so deciding to kill slavers is a breach to the oath of the ancien ??? that's unbelievable ...

[The1Kobra]

Did you attack them before they became hostile in dialogue or after?

[wendigo211]

I agree with you that based on the vow for an Ancients paladin, they probably shouldn't break their oath for attacking the slavers. There's an argument to be made for Devotion, although both Ancients and Vengeance should be okay. Anyway, get used to stuff like that. In Act 3 I broke my Ancients oath for killing a Bhaalist assassin during the ambush in the park.

Just have another character start combat and you should be fine most of the time. Similarly, having another character land the killing blow avoids those situations where killing an NPC breaks your oath.

[The1Kobra]

I didn't run into any fall problems there on my Oath of The Ancients paladin there.
I expect the when and why is important there. Like, if you demand they release the slaves after you beat Nere, you fail the check, and attack them, there's no fall there. (Or shouldn't be? Didn't fall me when I tried that permutation)

But if you just up and attack them while they're still non-hostile that might trigger the fall based on how the game handles 'innocents' and however they're flagging them at that point.

Knowing the exact sequence of actions taken/events may help diagnose this one.

[Ashe]

Paladin Oath is weird. I managed to accidentally break my Vengeance oath by telling Minthara where the druids were even though a prior option explicitly states that if doing so will lure them out and you can warn the tieflings.

Think the game wanted me to kill her there and then?

[6h0$t942]

Yea...i wouldnt put too much stock in what larian thinks is "good" and "evil". I do appreciate the heads up about paladins being especially vomit inducingly bad

[MensRea]

Originally posted by Merlyn:

So I am in the underdark and I have to found someone called Nere. The gnomes are beaten to death and I decide to attack the duergard, I am an serment of the ancient paladin...so deciding to kill slavers is a breach to the oath of the ancien ??? that's unbelievable ...

You are effectively on cop rules, even if you know the evil drug dealer is slinging dope to kids you cannot put five rounds in his head and chest till you get him to shot at you first. Welcome to life with consequences. Have one of your other party members start the fight, Paladins can kill to 'save' lives.

[Wraith]

Originally posted by Ashe:

Paladin Oath is weird. I managed to accidentally break my Vengeance oath by telling Minthara where the druids were even though a prior option explicitly states that if doing so will lure them out and you can warn the tieflings.

Think the game wanted me to kill her there and then?

Sound like you broke this part

Restitution. If my foes wreak ruin on the world, it is because I failed to stop them. I must help those harmed by their misdeeds.

Your not exactly helping the tiefling by telling minthara where they are...
Even if you plan to trick and ambush her, you are forcing innocent victims to join you in the fight lol

[The1Kobra]

Originally posted by Ashe:

Paladin Oath is weird. I managed to accidentally break my Vengeance oath by telling Minthara where the druids were even though a prior option explicitly states that if doing so will lure them out and you can warn the tieflings.

Think the game wanted me to kill her there and then?

That one admittedly isn't weird. You're putting innocents in danger instead of straight up smiting the wicked. That would would be an oath break.
Paladins need to be honorable in how they fight evil, after all.

[Darth Cannabis]

Originally posted by Ashe:

Paladin Oath is weird. I managed to accidentally break my Vengeance oath by telling Minthara where the druids were even though a prior option explicitly states that if doing so will lure them out and you can warn the tieflings.

Think the game wanted me to kill her there and then?

Well leading a group into an ambush is dishonest and would constitute a betrayal. Yeah your betraying bad guys, but honesty and truth are applicable to one of the oaths.

I actually had a huge debate with some friends concerning the paladin oath of devotion and whether or not I should stake Astarion when he tries to bite me. Do we see him as a monster or a creature to be pitied? Do we try to save him or stake him? Is our duty to protect the rest of our party from a vampire thrall or to try to cure him? Sure with vengeance or ancient oath, I'd stake him without a second thought, but for devotion I really had to consider all the moral aspects of the choice.

Turns out the whole situation resolved itself. He never tried to bite me before I ran into the Gur hunter. I was honest with him revealing our camp, then I was honest with Astarion about doing so who got angry and left on his own.

[Clonedpickle]

Originally posted by The1Kobra:

Originally posted by Ashe:

Paladin Oath is weird. I managed to accidentally break my Vengeance oath by telling Minthara where the druids were even though a prior option explicitly states that if doing so will lure them out and you can warn the tieflings.

Think the game wanted me to kill her there and then?

That one admittedly isn't weird. You're putting innocents in danger instead of straight up smiting the wicked. That would would be an oath break.
Paladins need to be honorable in how they fight evil, after all.

It's also you're still a paladin and sided with evil by telling them the location, even if you plan to betray her. A oath of vengeance paladin sacrifices honor to slay the wicked with no mercy, 'the end justifies the means'.

As for OP, if you went out of your way to attack a enemy that's 'non-hostile' you would be breaking Ancients oath. It's mostly live and let live. All that matters is the preservation of good. Law and chaos are secondary at best.

[Mizu]

Originally posted by Wraith:

Originally posted by Ashe:

Paladin Oath is weird. I managed to accidentally break my Vengeance oath by telling Minthara where the druids were even though a prior option explicitly states that if doing so will lure them out and you can warn the tieflings.

Think the game wanted me to kill her there and then?

Sound like you broke this part

Restitution. If my foes wreak ruin on the world, it is because I failed to stop them. I must help those harmed by their misdeeds.

Your not exactly helping the tiefling by telling minthara where they are...
Even if you plan to trick and ambush her, you are forcing innocent victims to join you in the fight lol

I think this might be the correct reading. You endangered innocents to make your own job easier by forcing them to have no option but to join you in a fight you brought to their door.

[Metrod125]

Here are some references regarding the Oaths from the BG3 Wiki:

In general regards to breaking the Oaths:

Oath of the Ancients: Killing a non-aggressive animal, raising the dead, or choosing an "Attack" dialogue option when more peaceful options are available.

Oath of Devotion: Attacking a non-hostile creature, refusing to defend someone who is obviously in need of aid, or deceiving your enemies (e.g. negotiating a peaceful resolution and then attacking anyway).

Oath of Vengeance: Convincing someone not to take their revenge on their transgressor, letting the guilty go without punishment, betraying those who were in need of vengeance and siding with their oppressor.

More Specific and Known Breakpoints (Spoiler for some)

Oath of Ancients: Using Bitter Divorce wand to raise Mayrina's Husband from the dead after defeating Auntie Ethel.
Taking Auntie Ethel's deal once she surrenders.
Siding with Sovereign Glut to defeat Sovereign Spaw.
Killing the owl bear cub after killing the mother.
Actions that guards do not like, or leave the "Witness" status, appear to cause a broken Oath, (even attacking Duergar after telling the Deep Gnomes you'll free them in Grymforge caused this). Noting that starting combat via conversational choices rather than attacking directly does seem to mitigate this most of the time.
Shoving someone to their death also counts as breaking the oath. This sometimes also includes evil characters such as Assassins of Bhaal in the arena where you fight Orin.

Oath of Devotion: Repeatedly stabbing Abdirak, Priest of Lovitar, in the goblin camp while he refuses to fight back will case an Oath of Devotion Paladin to fall.
Fighting the tieflings who have Lae'zel trapped in a cage will break your Oath, no matter how you fight them.
Killing Anders without confirming first that he is hunting Karlach on the order of Zariel.
Killing the slaver duergar in Grymforge, Ward Pistle and Ward Magmar.
In Punish the Wicked, after retrieving the ledger, choose either punishment for Madeline. Telling her it's not her fault and forgiving her is the only option that will not break your oath.
Killing the prisoners in the pods in the mindflayer colony rather than releasing them.
Killing the jailers in Wyrm's Rock Prison.
Using certain persuasion options to get Wulbren to stand down instead of killing the Gondians after you accept his bomb and use it to blow up the steel watch factory cases an Oath of Devotion Paladin to fall.

Oath of Vengeance: Attacking Damays and Nymessa.
Freeing Sazza from her cage.
Agreeing to attack the Grove with Minthara.
Letting Auntie Ethel get away from the fight alive in exchange for her boon.
Killing Sovereign Spaw after siding with Glut at the Ebonlake Grotto (Myconid Colony).
Siding with Nere after liberating him in Grymforge.
(As Dark Urge) Embracing the Alfiras murder will break your oath.
Telling Mol that you like her ambition of becoming the leader of the Thieves Guild
Letting Minthara get erased by the torturers at the Moonrise Towers.
In Punish the Wicked, forgiving Madeline will break your oath. Telling her to stab herself then stopping her will also do so.
Siding with Marcus will break your oath.
Feeding the Mind Flayer in the Rivington Abandoned Windmill
Accepting Gortash's proposal during the ceremony at Wyrm's Rock Fortress.
(if doing Shadowheart's quest): Letting Viconia live after the House of Grief final fight.
(If doing Astarion's quest): Letting Astarion ascend to become a True Vampire

TL;DR Oathbreaker Gigachads

[Merlyn]

I undesrtand better now. even if strange I understand, technically my character has indeed attacked and slaughtered people (duergars) who, despite their barbaric methodes, were neutral to me...so I should accept the consequences. A night of sleep and your various explanations this morning has make me realize that. I have now to speak to the oathbreaker knight and face the consequences. Thank you to all :) .

[Quacksalber]

Nere is such an insufferable, idiotic wretch, I find it impossible to rationalise anyone or anything in the game disapproving of getting rid of him. He's the most transparent dumbass of a baddy I've ever come across. Even if you play a character that's needlessly cruel, you would just kill him anyway, after he's done his stupid crap.

IDK anything about Paladins, mind you, so I cannot speak to that logic other than I would reroll my character if I was expected to encourage the Nere's of the world xD

[Lil Grandpa]

I wish there was more granularity to some decisions (depending on the gravity of the decision that is), as in a minor "fracture" of your oath that you can solve through penance rather than a full on fall. But yeah, like one guy said, it's definitely cop rules with playing Paladin.