Are multi-class weaker than a pure classes (i.e. Bard/Rogue combo)?

[Mystified]

My concern is multi-class characters are weaker than full class characters at level 12?

If I do multi-class, should I just go Bard for the first six levels then switch to Rogue for the final six? My characters are Lv 6 at the moment.

[Nikloss]

引用自 Cthulhu：

define "weaker"; weaker in comparison to what?
number of attacks? overall dmg output? highest dmg shot? highest AoE dmg? survivability? CC caster? deceptionist/persuasionist? thieving? assassination? support/healing? pve or pvp?
there is no weaker/stronger imho, all is situational, but im pretty sure very few class combos can be "stronger" in melee like a pure fighter for example.
multiclassing have near infinite combinations/synergy; for Bard i like to suggest to xclass with some other CHA class, like warlock or sorcerer ... really bard/rogue is not optimal imo, rogue is better xclass with fighet or ranger, but again multiclassing is an infinite topic

I was looking for a comment like the one you just delivered.
Weaving in that there are more parameters than just straight DPS and it should be lifted towards determining a good class setup just as you said.

Lore bards are for instance stupidly strong in a team environment both as face but also for CC and support. That class is probably a great choice just to go single class all the way as it's a caster which get benefits from higher spell levels.

One good CC spell on a nasty mob means it's pretty much gone once the dps characters get to it.

[Gregorovitch]

Multi-class builds can be stronger than any single class build. But not all. Others can multi-task more than one party role and therefore open a party slot for an extra DPT companion.

The reasons multi-class can be "better" are:

a) Many classes are front loaded with important abilities that can be accessed within 2-5 levels.

b) Some abilities scale with character level rather than class level (example Warlock's Eldritch Blast)

Three examples of classes that make good dips are:

1. Fighter. Get's heavy armour, martial weapons, second wind and fighting style at L1, Action surge at L2 and extra attack at L5. That's adding colossal value to seven levels of pretty much anything else, especially classes that can use STR.

2. Warlock. Get's Eldritch Blast at L1, the most powerful cantrip in the game, it gets upgraded at L2. You get two beams at L5 and three at L11. Extra beams are based off of character level, not Warlock level, so two levels of Warlock can add a whole heap to any CHA based classes. Sorlocks, Palocks, Bardlocks etc.

3. Palladin. Get's heavy armour, martial weapons etc at L1, fighting Style and Divine Smite at L2 and extra attack at L5. A five level Paladin dip is very popular 'cos by then you have four 1st level spell slots and two 2nd level. This means per long rest you can make four divine smite attacks at +2D8 radiant damage and two at +3D8 radiant damage plus the all important extra attack every turn. There isn't much in the game that can survive this so it adds a lot to seven levels of any other class(es) that can also use CHA and STR.

Notice the important criteria here for multi-classing is stat synergies. The advantage of front loading key class abilities can be reduced if the other classes used in the multi-class build don't use the same main stats.

Also note that in BG3 multi-classing is even more powerful than in the table top game 'cos you can respec for measly 100 gold any time you want so you can use particular builds optimised for various level ranges as the game progresses. I don't think the average DM lets you do that on the table top, and certainly not for a measly 100 gold..

[Cthulhu]

multiclassing bard with the phalar aluve sounds sweet, maybe i will try this, like bard/warlock or warlock bard with that sword? mhmm
PS: multiclass fighter with at least 6 lvls fighter because feat al lv6, so lv6 figher, not 5, rip +1d6 sneak damage but + 1 more feat seems better to me

[DYNIA]

引用自 Xrystus：

Multiclassing has a ton of benefits, often considered superior to going single class. Of course this is depending on the class. Some don't multiclass very well at all, such as monks. While multiclassing, keep in mind likely the most important thing (except in rare cases) is that ASI/feats (or in this game, ability improvements) show up every 4th level, with some classes having more, like the fighter. These are your primary power increases and are very rarely ignored.
For martials (classes that tend to use weapons rather than spells), their most important feature is Extra Attack. Ignoring it will cause your character to be extremely limited in the damage it could do in comparison to casters.

For your build in particular (bard/rogue), I would start Bard, pick up the Swords subclass at level 3, and go to level 6. This is the level where Swords bard gains Extra attack. From there, swap to Rogue. The rogue subclass is up to you, but the thief subclass is insanely powerful due to having two bonus actions.
Ultimately this would be it:
(3)Bard 3 - Swords subclass, two-weapon fighting style
(4)Bard 4 - Feat: Dual Wielder
(6)Bard 6 - Extra attack
(7)Rogue 1 - Begin rogue pivot
(9)Rogue 3 - Thief subclass
(10)Rogue 4 - Ability improvement: +2 in dex (18 dex)
(11)Bard 7 - Pivot back into bard
(12)Bard 8 - Ability improvement: +2 in dex (20 dex)

This allows you a powerful dual-wielding playstyle where you get to make your offhand attack twice due to having two bonus actions. Finesse weapons are required.

what the point of all this when pure fighter doing it better and can use heavy armor also have more feats and much more hp at all ? lol

my hasted champion just killed elder brain in one turn and don't even used all 9 attacks cause 3 was crits (20% crit rate)

[DYNIA]

引用自 Gregorovitch：

2. Warlock. Get's Eldritch Blast at L1, the most powerful cantrip in the game,

this is funny when every1 tell this is most powerfull when my draconic sorc doing more damage from firebolt xD

[Cthulhu]

引用自 DYNIA：

引用自 Xrystus：

.....

what the point of all this when pure fighter doing it better and can use heavy armor also have more feats and much more hp at all ? lol

my hasted champion just killed elder brain in one turn and don't even used all 9 attacks cause 3 was crits (20% crit rate)

this is even true, at least lv8 fighter then, but anyway pure fighter is probably the strongest pure class in the game if you want a melee frontliner, and i suspect (need to try) the pure barbarian class is wonderfull too; but i dont want to say pure classes are stronger, but for sure a pure class can do things s multiclass cant, and vice versa, all depends on your goals/playstyle

[Xrystus]

引用自 DYNIA：

引用自 Xrystus：

Multiclassing has a ton of benefits, often considered superior to going single class. Of course this is depending on the class. Some don't multiclass very well at all, such as monks. While multiclassing, keep in mind likely the most important thing (except in rare cases) is that ASI/feats (or in this game, ability improvements) show up every 4th level, with some classes having more, like the fighter. These are your primary power increases and are very rarely ignored.
For martials (classes that tend to use weapons rather than spells), their most important feature is Extra Attack. Ignoring it will cause your character to be extremely limited in the damage it could do in comparison to casters.

For your build in particular (bard/rogue), I would start Bard, pick up the Swords subclass at level 3, and go to level 6. This is the level where Swords bard gains Extra attack. From there, swap to Rogue. The rogue subclass is up to you, but the thief subclass is insanely powerful due to having two bonus actions.
Ultimately this would be it:
(3)Bard 3 - Swords subclass, two-weapon fighting style
(4)Bard 4 - Feat: Dual Wielder
(6)Bard 6 - Extra attack
(7)Rogue 1 - Begin rogue pivot
(9)Rogue 3 - Thief subclass
(10)Rogue 4 - Ability improvement: +2 in dex (18 dex)
(11)Bard 7 - Pivot back into bard
(12)Bard 8 - Ability improvement: +2 in dex (20 dex)

This allows you a powerful dual-wielding playstyle where you get to make your offhand attack twice due to having two bonus actions. Finesse weapons are required.

what the point of all this when pure fighter doing it better and can use heavy armor also have more feats and much more hp at all ? lol

my hasted champion just killed elder brain in one turn and don't even used all 9 attacks cause 3 was crits (20% crit rate)

Swords Bard / Thief Rogue build includes:
Expertise in 4 skills lockpicking/persuasion/perception/etc
Jack of all trades
3rd short rest
Bonus action dash/disengage/hide
Double bonus action
Sneak attack
Spellcasting
Bardic inspiration / Flourishes
Stealth

Champion fighter includes:
Hit gud.
Hit gud lots.

[Gaius]

引用自 DYNIA：

引用自 Gregorovitch：

2. Warlock. Get's Eldritch Blast at L1, the most powerful cantrip in the game,

this is funny when every1 tell this is most powerfull when my draconic sorc doing more damage from firebolt xD

Firebolt doesn't scale like EB, EB is the ONLY cantrip worth casting at hiher lvs. That said, I dislike the gameplay of warlocks.

[Callirgos]

Yes. Multiclass is always weaker. Even with multiple career paths people are absolutely addicted to excel and try to figure out the perfect "build". Its the RPG equivalent of doge coin. absolute bricks

[DYNIA]

引用自 Xrystus：

引用自 DYNIA：

what the point of all this when pure fighter doing it better and can use heavy armor also have more feats and much more hp at all ? lol

my hasted champion just killed elder brain in one turn and don't even used all 9 attacks cause 3 was crits (20% crit rate)

Swords Bard / Thief Rogue build includes:
Expertise in 4 skills lockpicking/persuasion/perception/etc
Jack of all trades
3rd short rest
Bonus action dash/disengage/hide
Double bonus action
Sneak attack
Spellcasting
Bardic inspiration / Flourishes
Stealth

Champion fighter includes:
Hit gud.
Hit gud lots.

champion with 20% crit rate don't need all that, dude I just killed elder brain on tatican in one turn and don't even used all 9 attacks, beat that, he kill basicily everything in one turn that don't have psysical resistance if some1 have my paladin kill it in one turn any way

sorry your build is crap

[DYNIA]

引用自 Gaius：

引用自 DYNIA：

this is funny when every1 tell this is most powerfull when my draconic sorc doing more damage from firebolt xD

Firebolt doesn't scale like EB, EB is the ONLY cantrip worth casting at hiher lvs. That said, I dislike the gameplay of warlocks.

firebolt damage scale with levels and with charisma and from items blast only from levels and charisma, and I have much more better spells than warlock, warlock is C tier with druid

sorc is best offensive caster + have dual cast for spells like haste or iron skin or resistnace for elementals if you rly need for bosses like lighting dragon

[Cthulhu]

引用自 Xrystus：

引用自 DYNIA：

what the point of all this when pure fighter doing it better and can use heavy armor also have more feats and much more hp at all ? lol

my hasted champion just killed elder brain in one turn and don't even used all 9 attacks cause 3 was crits (20% crit rate)

Swords Bard / Thief Rogue build includes:
Expertise in 4 skills lockpicking/persuasion/perception/etc
Jack of all trades
3rd short rest
Bonus action dash/disengage/hide
Double bonus action
Sneak attack
Spellcasting
Bardic inspiration / Flourishes
Stealth

Champion fighter includes:
Hit gud.
Hit gud lots.

that's why i think too that there is no reason to have such complex multiclass if you goal is to kill enemies and not to be a jack of all trade that even support the party, what is the point in all of this when yeah you just destroy the enemy with some of your weapon attacks? xD

I just killed elder brain on tatican in one turn and don't even used all 9 attacks

this explain better :D

[DYNIA]

引用自 Cthulhu：

引用自 Xrystus：

Swords Bard / Thief Rogue build includes:
Expertise in 4 skills lockpicking/persuasion/perception/etc
Jack of all trades
3rd short rest
Bonus action dash/disengage/hide
Double bonus action
Sneak attack
Spellcasting
Bardic inspiration / Flourishes
Stealth

Champion fighter includes:
Hit gud.
Hit gud lots.

that's why i think too that there is no reason to have such complex multiclass if you goal is to kill enemies and not to be a jack of all trade that even support the party, what is the point in all of this when yeah you just destroy the enemy with some of your weapon attacks? xD

there are better supports in game then bards like life cleric + bless ring + blade ward gloves, even light cleric with better dps can do that support and heal

[Callirgos]

The hilarious thing about "Builds" is your character is garbage and unplayable while your grinding levels to the end state.

If you have to reload each battle, because you nerfed yourself so hard, then your "build" is bad. Doesn't matter if you eeked out +3% at max level.

You dead - insufficient, inadequate, planned poorly.

[DYNIA]

引用自 Callirgos：

The hilarious thing about "Builds" is your character is garbage and unplayable while your grinding levels to the end state.

If you have to reload each battle, because you nerfed yourself so hard, then your "build" is bad. Doesn't matter if you eeked out +3% at max level.

You dead - insufficient, inadequate, planned poorly.

-get fighter
- get any class that can cast haste on him with war mage feat
- profit
- if he die get life cleric