Sometimes, the writing gets in the way...

[EGGZxOVERxExZ]

Let me explain. Its only in very rare circumstances where the writing feels forced but i personally feel like a good handful of the romance options in this game could have been done in a more subtle and over all better way.

I dont mind whatsoever the option to romance a character like Halsin but when the writing turns into something that doesn't fit the overall impression the characters personality arch as been implying then it just feels rushed and forced into place.

Out of nowhere, i go and talk to Halsin and he just starts going off about his heart fluttering over me and even goes as far as feeling let down when you explain youre not interested.

Im sure im going to get backlash for this opinion but it just felt forced. Most of the romance options/dialogue i feel like could have been done a bit better but this is an overall very small gripe i have over an overall amazing experience.

[Xrystus]

Messaggio originale di ClearlyHopeless:

Messaggio originale di fae.wicket:

I think they're trying to say the men are too feminine and the women are too masculine....though I'd disagree, especially on the men being too feminine. Astarion's really the only effeminate man.

Yeah I have no idea what they're talking about. If that is what they meant then they're just wrong and its kinda funny. They are all believable characters and that is what matters tbh. If they're mad that Karlach is too buff or that Gale isn't a muscular giant then I'm just gonna stop taking them seriously lmao. I was going to try and justify the femininity and masculinity of the male and female characters but I realized that it didn't matter so long as the characters feel like real people which they do. Playersexuality aside

The role reversals are not just the visual representations, but also class representations as well. Both the baseline companion and hireling for the strength-based fighter and barbarian classes are women. Both the barbarian classes have over-masculine traits, such as the over-bulked karlach and the only bearded female dwarf in the game (that I am aware of). On the flipside, every class that the men have do NOT use strength at all, with the sole exception of the half-orc hireling Kerz. Even then they tried to have Kerz be "nonbinary" with his description. The visually masculine males, Halsin and Minsc, also use classes that don't benefit from strength, making them only visually muscular. Personality wise, Halsin is part of the hyper-thirst squad and Minsc is the derogatory "male moron" stereotype.
Although we have a thing called respec to fix this, the role reversal in that regard couldn't be more clear.

[Laluzi]

Messaggio originale di Xrystus:

Messaggio originale di ClearlyHopeless:

Yeah I have no idea what they're talking about. If that is what they meant then they're just wrong and its kinda funny. They are all believable characters and that is what matters tbh. If they're mad that Karlach is too buff or that Gale isn't a muscular giant then I'm just gonna stop taking them seriously lmao. I was going to try and justify the femininity and masculinity of the male and female characters but I realized that it didn't matter so long as the characters feel like real people which they do. Playersexuality aside

The role reversals are not just the visual representations, but also class representations as well. Both the baseline companion and hireling for the strength-based fighter and barbarian classes are women. Both the barbarian classes have over-masculine traits, such as the over-bulked karlach and the only bearded female dwarf in the game (that I am aware of). On the flipside, every class that the men have do NOT use strength at all, with the sole exception of the half-orc hireling Kerz. Even then they tried to have Kerz be "nonbinary" with his description. The visually masculine males, Halsin and Minsc, also use classes that don't benefit from strength, making them only visually muscular. Personality wise, Halsin is part of the hyper-thirst squad and Minsc is the derogatory "male moron" stereotype.
Although we have a thing called respec to fix this, the role reversal in that regard couldn't be more clear.

I think the better question is... why is this so upsetting to you? I just look at the game and see characters, not arbitrary quotas.

Plus, you're complaining that the characters didn't fit male/female stereotypes, then turned around and complained that Halsin and Minsc are male stereotypes (hot daddy and muscle idiot respectively.) Wyll's also a wandering hero who goes about rescuing damsels and fighting evil, which I'd argue is plenty masculine. What do you actually want?

[ClearlyHopeless]

Messaggio originale di Xrystus:

Messaggio originale di ClearlyHopeless:

Yeah I have no idea what they're talking about. If that is what they meant then they're just wrong and its kinda funny. They are all believable characters and that is what matters tbh. If they're mad that Karlach is too buff or that Gale isn't a muscular giant then I'm just gonna stop taking them seriously lmao. I was going to try and justify the femininity and masculinity of the male and female characters but I realized that it didn't matter so long as the characters feel like real people which they do. Playersexuality aside

The role reversals are not just the visual representations, but also class representations as well. Both the baseline companion and hireling for the strength-based fighter and barbarian classes are women. Both the barbarian classes have over-masculine traits, such as the over-bulked karlach and the only bearded female dwarf in the game (that I am aware of). On the flipside, every class that the men have do NOT use strength at all, with the sole exception of the half-orc hireling Kerz. Even then they tried to have Kerz be "nonbinary" with his description. The visually masculine males, Halsin and Minsc, also use classes that don't benefit from strength, making them only visually muscular. Personality wise, Halsin is part of the hyper-thirst squad and Minsc is the derogatory "male moron" stereotype.
Although we have a thing called respec to fix this, the role reversal in that regard couldn't be more clear.

So the man's role is to be a super strong warrior and a woman's role is everything else? We have two strength based companions, Karlach and Laezel and they are both women. That is true and also a non-issue. Are you saying that Gale and Wyll aren't masculine because they don't fight with big swords? Halsin is buff as ♥♥♥♥ but he isn't manly enough because he turns into a bear and does magic ♥♥♥♥? I am genuinely unable to understand what you actually want aside from "more muscle men with big sword plz."

I would also like to point out that hirelings both aren't characters and are fully customizable so you can just change them into big muscle men if you want to so I don't see why they would bother you so much

[Xrystus]

Messaggio originale di Laluzi:

I think the better question is... why is this so upsetting to you? I just look at the game and see characters, not arbitrary quotas.

That's actually the problem, I wish they were characters instead of arbitrary quotas lol. The idea of a character that breaks the mold is often well received. I actually really like Karlach, she is one I can absolutely see fitting this role since she was put through a war in hell and has a infernal machine fueling her heart. This makes sense. The fact that all the others just HAD to fill the strength role, for no other reason than "because". One is awesome. Two is coincidence. Having ALL the strength roles be women turns them into arbitrary quotas for a narrative. This is inversely true for the men, they even tried to make the sole exception nonbinary.

Again, respec fixes this, but the intention is clear and it is immersion breaking. Why am I upset? Because I'm just wanting to play a damn game to escape this stuff only to have it come back up IN THE GAME.

Also, Wyll I think is probably one of the worst example by sheer neglectful writing. Saving Karlach literally demonizes a indentured servant black man. Please don't try to tell me that they thought that one through.

As for the derogatory stereotypes that ARE there like Minsc, are you telling me you would be fine if there was a stereotypical beautiful dumb blonde woman with a giant chest and thin body as a core companion who follows the player like a lost puppy from a harem anime? I'd like to think that you wouldn't be comfortable with that... but if Minsc is OK to you, then so is the Dumb Blonde Harem Waifu.

[fae.wicket]

Messaggio originale di Xrystus:

Messaggio originale di Laluzi:

I think the better question is... why is this so upsetting to you? I just look at the game and see characters, not arbitrary quotas.

That's actually the problem, I wish they were characters instead of arbitrary quotas lol. The idea of a character that breaks the mold is often well received. I actually really like Karlach, she is one I can absolutely see fitting this role since she was put through a war in hell and has a infernal machine fueling her heart. This makes sense. The fact that all the others just HAD to fill the strength role, for no other reason than "because". One is awesome. Two is coincidence. Having ALL the strength roles be women turns them into arbitrary quotas for a narrative. This is inversely true for the men, they even tried to make the sole exception nonbinary.

Again, respec fixes this, but the intention is clear and it is immersion breaking. Why am I upset? Because I'm just wanting to play a damn game to escape this stuff only to have it come back up IN THE GAME.

Also, Wyll I think is probably one of the worst example by sheer neglectful writing. Saving Karlach literally demonizes a indentured servant black man. Please don't try to tell me that they thought that one through.

As for the derogatory stereotypes that ARE there like Minsc, are you telling me you would be fine if there was a stereotypical beautiful dumb blonde woman with a giant chest and thin body as a core companion who follows the player like a lost puppy from a harem anime? I'd like to think that you wouldn't be comfortable with that... but if Minsc is OK to you, then so is the Dumb Blonde Harem Waifu.

Tell me you don't know Minsc's history without telling me.

[Xrystus]

Messaggio originale di ClearlyHopeless:

So the man's role is to be a super strong warrior and a woman's role is everything else? We have two strength based companions, Karlach and Laezel and they are both women. That is true and also a non-issue. Are you saying that Gale and Wyll aren't masculine because they don't fight with big swords? Halsin is buff as ♥♥♥♥ but he isn't manly enough because he turns into a bear and does magic ♥♥♥♥? I am genuinely unable to understand what you actually want aside from "more muscle men with big sword plz."

I would also like to point out that hirelings both aren't characters and are fully customizable so you can just change them into big muscle men if you want to so I don't see why they would bother you so much

Huh, I coulda swore I kept saying "respec fixes this" or something.

But so you can get more internet argument reward points, I'll say it again. Respec fixes this. There you go, you won, congratulations. Moving on.

[Xrystus]

Messaggio originale di fae.wicket:

Tell me you don't know Minsc's history without telling me.

Tell me Minsc's history is based around a derogatory male stereotype without telling me.

[fae.wicket]

Messaggio originale di Xrystus:

Messaggio originale di fae.wicket:

Tell me you don't know Minsc's history without telling me.

Tell me Minsc's history is based around a derogatory male stereotype without telling me.

It's not though. Minsc recieved a head injury while on a journey of self discovery. He's not just "big, dumb meathead." There's story behind why. It's not like he's Kronk from the Emporer's New Groove.

[EGGZxOVERxExZ]

Messaggio originale di Xrystus:

Messaggio originale di fae.wicket:

Tell me you don't know Minsc's history without telling me.

Tell me Minsc's history is based around a derogatory male stereotype without telling me.

>____> Are you serious? Why even go there?

[Quillithe]

Messaggio originale di EGGZOVERxExZ:

Messaggio originale di Xrystus:

Tell me Minsc's history is based around a derogatory male stereotype without telling me.

>____> Are you serious? Why even go there?

This is what happens when you try to make a reasonable post about the writing.

We probably only have a few more posts before someone starts posting research about homosexuality in penguins.

[Xrystus]

Messaggio originale di fae.wicket:

Messaggio originale di Xrystus:

Tell me Minsc's history is based around a derogatory male stereotype without telling me.

It's not though. Minsc recieved a head injury while on a journey of self discovery. He's not just "big, dumb meathead." There's story behind why. It's not like he's Kronk from the Emporer's New Groove.

You know who also doesn't know this? Any of the other characters in the game, with Jaheara being the only one in the know I assume.
Which means, you are correct! This does give him more depth. Wanna know what could have fixed this?
Player: Is he always like this?
Jaheara: No, he went on a journey and received a devastating head injury. He isn't as thoughtful as he used to be, but his instincts are still intact. Make no mistake, he will be a valuable asset to our cause!

Heck, maybe I'm even wrong about Jaheara knowing about it. This means a tiny explanation somewhere for the new players who haven't played the previous games would be good writing. I just looked up his page on the BG3 wiki and it says nothing about said injury. A comment on there was right though: He was introduced too late with little context and only people who already know OF Minsc will understand and enjoy him. They are correct, I just saw him as he is currently portrayed in this game: The derogatory muscle moron stereotype. Thus I blame the writers, which is part of the topic problem in the first place. Sounds like they didn't do Minsc justice.

[EGGZxOVERxExZ]

Messaggio originale di Xrystus:

Messaggio originale di fae.wicket:

It's not though. Minsc recieved a head injury while on a journey of self discovery. He's not just "big, dumb meathead." There's story behind why. It's not like he's Kronk from the Emporer's New Groove.

You know who also doesn't know this? Any of the other characters in the game, with Jaheara being the only one in the know I assume.
Which means, you are correct! This does give him more depth. Wanna know what could have fixed this?
Player: Is he always like this?
Jaheara: No, he went on a journey and received a devastating head injury. He isn't as thoughtful as he used to be, but his instincts are still intact. Make no mistake, he will be a valuable asset to our cause!

Heck, maybe I'm even wrong about Jaheara knowing about it. This means a tiny explanation somewhere for the new players who haven't played the previous games would be good writing. I just looked up his page on the BG3 wiki and it says nothing about said injury. A comment on there was right though: He was introduced too late with little context and only people who already know OF Minsc will understand and enjoy him. They are correct, I just saw him as he is currently portrayed in this game: The derogatory muscle moron stereotype. Thus I blame the writers, which is part of the topic problem in the first place. Sounds like they didn't do Minsc justice.

Yeah i cant take what you say serious after your original comment. Completely uncalled for.

[Callirgos]

I'd crowdfund more money for Larian to do the romance system properly. I really like this game.

[ClearlyHopeless]

Messaggio originale di Xrystus:

Messaggio originale di ClearlyHopeless:

So the man's role is to be a super strong warrior and a woman's role is everything else? We have two strength based companions, Karlach and Laezel and they are both women. That is true and also a non-issue. Are you saying that Gale and Wyll aren't masculine because they don't fight with big swords? Halsin is buff as ♥♥♥♥ but he isn't manly enough because he turns into a bear and does magic ♥♥♥♥? I am genuinely unable to understand what you actually want aside from "more muscle men with big sword plz."

I would also like to point out that hirelings both aren't characters and are fully customizable so you can just change them into big muscle men if you want to so I don't see why they would bother you so much

Huh, I coulda swore I kept saying "respec fixes this" or something.

But so you can get more internet argument reward points, I'll say it again. Respec fixes this. There you go, you won, congratulations. Moving on.

I think you missed my point but that's okay. You were complaining about the default looks for completely customizable non-characters and I was simply pointing out how silly that is. That'd be like having a problem with Skyrim's default look for each race and complaining about it. You also failed to describe what you actually want from the game. So I ask again, do you simply want more big muscle men with big sword? Because that's literally the only thing I can see as missing in this game's companions (aside from Minsc maybe idk I haven't got him yet). If you're going to insist on being angry about something I think it is only reasonable to expect you to be able to explain what you would like to see instead. And if it is genuinely just "this game doesn't have enough big muscle men with sword for me" then I'm sorry you feel that way. That doesn't make it a particularly strong criticism of the game...but I'm sorry your experience was ruined without a party of hot strong men to take into battle.
(Though of course both hot and strong male companions exist you just don't like them because of the weapons they choose to wield)