I Found Out What Happens If You Kill Shadowheart & Avoid Obtaining The Artefact

[Etragorn]

This is what happens if you kill Shadowheart, manage to avoid obtaining The Artefact, and try to leave Act 1.

https://youtu.be/bVmEEHeyRio

One interesting aspect about this is if you typically go right from the Grove entrance battle to the Mountain Pass to try and enter Act 2 and have the typical interaction with The Artefact protecting you, you end up in camp but both Withers and Raphael (how Withers gets to your camp is a real mystery since he should still be napping in his damn sarcophagus surrounded by undead monks) are present and you are forced to talk to them. As you can see, when you are forced to camp in this instance, it is completely empty except for Tav.

I think it's actually better than how they handle it if Shadowheart is alive and you've just pretended she doesn't exist and try to leave Act 1. If you try to do that, she just appears out of nowhere, even somehow making it past the Githyanki patrol and the red dragon if you slipped past them invisible. Even the way she appears looks terrible, it's like she just clipped her way through an invisible wall.

It's not as good as how they handle it if you kill Shadowheart as a party member and just leave her body to rot for wild Kobolds to eat with The artefact on it. The Artefact appears through magic pockets and protects you. At least according to the rules of D&D and magic pockets, that's a reasonable outcome.

The most reasonable is if you kill Shadowheart and then try to leave, The Artefact forces you to take it with you and it's supposed to be unavoidable (but there are ways around everything).

[SotiCoto]

Yeah... I forgot to mention that in my own thread. The game railroads hard. It gives the impression of there being many options, but all but one of them are dead ends one way or another.
Can't leave without the artefact.
Can't defy the Absolute.
Can't kill the Absolute (short of Galesplosion).
You've got to be an obedient little slave all the way through to the end.

[Kasa]

Neat!

And that my friends is how the you know the DM is rail roading you and the party.

[Argonaut]

Yep. RPG of the year.

You're only allowed to fail the way the developers want you to.

[Etragorn]

Originally posted by Kasa:

Neat!

And that my friends is how the you know the DM is rail roading you and the party.

Yeah, the DM of this game is clearly invested in a certain outcome. I'd honestly rather have them just handle it like they used to, and just Game Over the player so they know it's a dead end. I appreciate them respecting my choice to play in a screwed up way and getting a Game Over more than them using "Dev Magic" to force me to play along.

[Kasa]

I'd actually roll with it more, have you stop and be given a new quest under the mental orders of the Absolute, make it a whole thing!

And while searching for this weapon have you find said artifact and THEN have it free you!
You lose much less apparent agency because now the new quest is not to walk through those gates, it's to find this "weapon" and while looking you find a magical artifact that now has significance to you personally because it saved your life from being dominated by the absolute!

[JennyTheGhoul]

As for Withers, he always escapes the tomb, even if you never visit it. I missed it my first playthrough and wondered why he was in my camp. LOL. Second time I went through the tomb. I can't remember exactly when he joined me though.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Etragorn:

Originally posted by Kasa:

Neat!

And that my friends is how the you know the DM is rail roading you and the party.

Yeah, the DM of this game is clearly invested in a certain outcome. I'd honestly rather have them just handle it like they used to, and just Game Over the player so they know it's a dead end. I appreciate them respecting my choice to play in a screwed up way and getting a Game Over more than them using "Dev Magic" to force me to play along.

Eh, there are plenty of places where you can do that, I don't mind a little bit of player protection

Example and spoiler: here's an innovative way to lose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97DBWimh5k8

[barakehforever]

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Yep. RPG of the year.

You're only allowed to fail the way the developers want you to.

This is actually idiot proofing, so noobs who try to run all the way to the mountain pass for the lulz don't immediately get a game over

[Underlaw]

Bad writing this game have.... its fantastic how many people liked it, with such bad narrative. And so much plot holes.

[Frost]

Originally posted by barakehforever:

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Yep. RPG of the year.

You're only allowed to fail the way the developers want you to.

This is actually idiot proofing, so noobs who try to run all the way to the mountain pass for the lulz don't immediately get a game over

Yeah, this is just a fail-safe.

Would people prefer there to be nothing? Just a game over screen? I find this far more interesting.

[SoloQ]

I was sorely disappointed when I found out you can't avoid shadowheart and the relic and turn into a Mindlfayer in Act 1.
The game is a gem when you actually play it. When you start diverting from that it get's a bit wonky.

Originally posted by SotiCoto:

Yeah... I forgot to mention that in my own thread. The game railroads hard. It gives the impression of there being many options, but all but one of them are dead ends one way or another.
Can't leave without the artefact.
Can't defy the Absolute.
Can't kill the Absolute (short of Galesplosion).
You've got to be an obedient little slave all the way through to the end.

A tiny secret, that's kind of the point of the ending. Even when you thought you were in control of your character, you weren't. It was the Netherbrain's story all along. Not yours.
Just like in real life, it was the illusion of free will all along. Bummmbummbuuuuuuuuuuummmmm!!!

[Kasa]

Honestly I don't have a strong opinion on the artifact other then minor rebellion with it being forced on you, but hey it's D&D some times you get cursed with artifacts of fate.

Nah, I just don't wanna talk or deal with Shadowheart. From her name right down to her literal underwear is cringy edgelord my first D&D character.

She's the character the moody teenager at the D&D table makes when they wanna be seen as dark and cool and so they make an anti social arse who doesn't contribute anything worthwhile while brooding all the time,

And when I say literally down to her underwear even her underwear comments on brooding! lol

[makisekurisufcker]

Originally posted by SotiCoto:

Yeah... I forgot to mention that in my own thread. The game railroads hard. It gives the impression of there being many options, but all but one of them are dead ends one way or another.
Can't leave without the artefact.
Can't defy the Absolute.
Can't kill the Absolute (short of Galesplosion).
You've got to be an obedient little slave all the way through to the end.

Somehow this game deluded everyone into thinking it was open world when it has more obvious rails than Railroad Tycoon.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by GunSlinginOtaku:

Originally posted by SotiCoto:

Yeah... I forgot to mention that in my own thread. The game railroads hard. It gives the impression of there being many options, but all but one of them are dead ends one way or another.
Can't leave without the artefact.
Can't defy the Absolute.
Can't kill the Absolute (short of Galesplosion).
You've got to be an obedient little slave all the way through to the end.

Somehow this game deluded everyone into thinking it was open world when it has more obvious rails than Railroad Tycoon.

When people say stuff like this I can only assume they've never played a CRPG before.

Heck, WotR forces you to lead a crusade against hell! Even if you're chaotic evil or should realistically just want to get out of there. Baldur's Gate 2 forces you to sail to an island where your enemy is imprisoned to save someone no matter what. I dunno what people were expecting.

[IdealPoint]

Complaining about this is almost the same as complaining that you can't join the druegar in the Underdark and live our your pirate fantasy while ignoring the main quest.

Compare the agency of your character to something like Fallout 4 where every conversation choice is a version of 1. Yes 2. Not now 3. Snarky remark (return to original menu of choices), 4. Exit conversation without resolution. If you try to go somewhere too soon in that game you just run into literal unlockpickable doors and essential NPCs that get right back up if you attack them. They don't have any reason for being invulnerable like Ketheric does. They just are.

It's amazing this game even bothered to have a real route for people who intentionally avoid the content that is at the very start of the game and meant to be unavoidable.