My Bard spells has low attack %, why?

[Ababinili]

I mean, my spells are having 60-65% attack chance (tested with vicious mockery, tasha's laughter and dissonant whispers).

Why i've so low numbers?. My spellcasting stat is Charisma and i've 16. What am i missing?

[victorvnv]

16 is too low that’s why.

You need 20+

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Ababinili:

My Bard spells has low attack %, why?
I mean, my spells are having 60-65% attack chance (tested with vicious mockery, tasha's laughter and dissonant whispers).

Why i've so low numbers?. My spellcasting stat is Charisma and i've 16. What am i missing?

You missing that the percentage shows your chances with the dice, and that that number is actually pretty good.

[Bugillions]

These are all wisdom saving throw based spells, it's possible that the enemy you are targeting has a high modifier/proficiency/advantage on wisdom saves.

[RedRobed]

The percentage to hit is based on the enemy AC compared to your bonus to hit. When done in a vacuum, that means that 60 - 65% of the time, your attacks are going to land. This does NOT translate well to the game, as people don't understand that. The formula being used is that of one used for build testing and number crunching for a game already not too invested in number crunchery.

Spell casting tends to be lacklustre until you at least have a +4 or +5, and even then, with your Proficiency Bonus being applied(cap of +4), that caps at +9 to hit for most people. Where as weapons tend to have the +1/2/3 effect applied to them, meaning they cap at +12, more commonly at +10/11. Weapon combat has an advantage over spell combat in this regard. Archery Fighting Style gives a +2 to Hit, meaning the average bonus to hit for ranged builds are +12/13/14 - which is not a small bonus to hit.

Spell Casting for Attacks has always been a rough choice, but the flip side is that casters have Save spells. Which is typically what you should put front and centre vs damage. Where as weapon users, are far more limited in that they mostly just do, damage.

Change your angle of approach, try using spells that have Save effects vs Damage effects. Alternatively, that may just mean, playing a blaster caster (damage focused caster) is not for you.

[Carynara]

Might be because you don't have advantage against the target? I find I get 95-98+ % on these if I have advantage, e.g. the target is prone.

[KasparL]

try make use of advantage/disadvantage
also i would say 16 charisma is a bit low even if you are not making your bard pure caster

[deadsanta]

Having a level or three of Warlock allows you to use a bonus action to Hex someone in the stat you'll be targeting, and then use your main action to land the spell after he's been debuffed. Bard 7 Lock 5 or 9/3 work pretty great for cc'ing enemy, for that very reason. Plus that sexy knockback cantrip.

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by deadsanta:

Having a level or three of Warlock allows you to use a bonus action to curse someone in the stat you'll be targeting, and then use your main action to land the spell after he's been debuffed. Bard 7 Lock 5 or 9/3 work pretty great for cc'ing enemy, for that very reason. Plus that sexy knockback cantrip.

If you mean Hex, it only gives disadvantage on Ability checks (like Stealth for hiding or Perception for finding traps), not Saving throws. If it gave Disadvantage on Saving throws, it would be incredibly broken.

[Ababinili]

Okey okey, first for clarify: i'm starting, so more than 16/17 charisma it isn't an option. My plan is getting 18 with ethel's hair + actor, then at level 8, +2 charisma

Originally posted by RedRobed:

The percentage to hit is based on the enemy AC compared to your bonus to hit. When done in a vacuum, that means that 60 - 65% of the time, your attacks are going to land. This does NOT translate well to the game, as people don't understand that. The formula being used is that of one used for build testing and number crunching for a game already not too invested in number crunchery.

Spell casting tends to be lacklustre until you at least have a +4 or +5, and even then, with your Proficiency Bonus being applied(cap of +4), that caps at +9 to hit for most people. Where as weapons tend to have the +1/2/3 effect applied to them, meaning they cap at +12, more commonly at +10/11. Weapon combat has an advantage over spell combat in this regard. Archery Fighting Style gives a +2 to Hit, meaning the average bonus to hit for ranged builds are +12/13/14 - which is not a small bonus to hit.

Spell Casting for Attacks has always been a rough choice, but the flip side is that casters have Save spells. Which is typically what you should put front and centre vs damage. Where as weapon users, are far more limited in that they mostly just do, damage.

Change your angle of approach, try using spells that have Save effects vs Damage effects. Alternatively, that may just mean, playing a blaster caster (damage focused caster) is not for you.

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't thinking on a DPS bard, but a support one. Still, i wanted 1 or 2 DMG spells just in case, and that % made me nervous. I'll look for save spells for that :)

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by Ababinili:

Okey okey, first for clarify: i'm starting, so more than 16/17 charisma it isn't an option. My plan is getting 18 with ethel's hair + actor, then at level 8, +2 charisma

Originally posted by RedRobed:

The percentage to hit is based on the enemy AC compared to your bonus to hit. When done in a vacuum, that means that 60 - 65% of the time, your attacks are going to land. This does NOT translate well to the game, as people don't understand that. The formula being used is that of one used for build testing and number crunching for a game already not too invested in number crunchery.

Spell casting tends to be lacklustre until you at least have a +4 or +5, and even then, with your Proficiency Bonus being applied(cap of +4), that caps at +9 to hit for most people. Where as weapons tend to have the +1/2/3 effect applied to them, meaning they cap at +12, more commonly at +10/11. Weapon combat has an advantage over spell combat in this regard. Archery Fighting Style gives a +2 to Hit, meaning the average bonus to hit for ranged builds are +12/13/14 - which is not a small bonus to hit.

Spell Casting for Attacks has always been a rough choice, but the flip side is that casters have Save spells. Which is typically what you should put front and centre vs damage. Where as weapon users, are far more limited in that they mostly just do, damage.

Change your angle of approach, try using spells that have Save effects vs Damage effects. Alternatively, that may just mean, playing a blaster caster (damage focused caster) is not for you.

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't thinking on a DPS bard, but a support one. Still, i wanted 1 or 2 DMG spells just in case, and that % made me nervous. I'll look for save spells for that :)

Dissonant whispers, Tasha's and Vicios mockery are save spells, not attack roll spells. Just trying to clarify for you that you were using save spells already, not attack spells. I don't remember if Bards actually get many spells that use attack rolls.

Difference is, attack rolls (spells or weapon attacks) target enemy armor class. Save spells target a certain enemy saving throw (WIS, DEX and CON being the most common, I think). The advantage of save spells is that you can have multiple spells that target different saves and that way increase your chance of landing that spell. Which is why you should try and pay attention to what spells you pick as a bard. If you only pick spells that target WIS saves (like Dissonant whispers, Tasha's and Vicious mockery all do) and your enemy has high WIS saves, it's a bad time for you.

[Ababinili]

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Originally posted by Ababinili:

Okey okey, first for clarify: i'm starting, so more than 16/17 charisma it isn't an option. My plan is getting 18 with ethel's hair + actor, then at level 8, +2 charisma





Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't thinking on a DPS bard, but a support one. Still, i wanted 1 or 2 DMG spells just in case, and that % made me nervous. I'll look for save spells for that :)

Dissonant whispers, Tasha's and Vicios mockery are save spells, not attack roll spells. Just trying to clarify for you that you were using save spells already, not attack spells. I don't remember if Bards actually get many spells that use attack rolls.

Difference is, attack rolls (spells or weapon attacks) target enemy armor class. Save spells target a certain enemy saving throw (WIS, DEX and CON being the most common, I think). The advantage of save spells is that you can have multiple spells that target different saves and that way increase your chance of landing that spell. Which is why you should try and pay attention to what spells you pick as a bard. If you only pick spells that target WIS saves (like Dissonant whispers, Tasha's and Vicious mockery all do) and your enemy has high WIS saves, it's a bad time for you.

At the beginning i was confused with saving spells VS attack roll spells, yes. After @redrobbed post i've understood it better. And yes, if i want DMG i've to look for spells that targets different stats, that's right :)

Just for ending this matter (last question): if a saving spells does half damage if saved... theorically can't be missed? only partially mitigated?

[Aphex]

because dnd sucks and should never be adapted for a video game

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by Ababinili:

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Dissonant whispers, Tasha's and Vicios mockery are save spells, not attack roll spells. Just trying to clarify for you that you were using save spells already, not attack spells. I don't remember if Bards actually get many spells that use attack rolls.

Difference is, attack rolls (spells or weapon attacks) target enemy armor class. Save spells target a certain enemy saving throw (WIS, DEX and CON being the most common, I think). The advantage of save spells is that you can have multiple spells that target different saves and that way increase your chance of landing that spell. Which is why you should try and pay attention to what spells you pick as a bard. If you only pick spells that target WIS saves (like Dissonant whispers, Tasha's and Vicious mockery all do) and your enemy has high WIS saves, it's a bad time for you.

At the beginning i was confused with saving spells VS attack roll spells, yes. After @redrobbed post i've understood it better. And yes, if i want DMG i've to look for spells that targets different stats, that's right :)

Just for ending this matter (last question): if a saving spells does half damage if saved... theorically can't be missed? only partially mitigated?

Save for halvf means that you always do some damage, yes.