So is Monk the strongest Martial class?

[Giganx]

Open Hand Monk with Tavern Brawler seems to outperform all other melee classes early on, but is there a point where unarmed Monk falls behind because it won't be wielding beefy endgame weapons?

[Ranpo]

Monks are squishy.
Also fighters have nice advantages when it comes to damage types, monks only do buldgeoning.

Also they have terrible itemisation since they don't use weapons or shields. They lose out on alot of weapon only buffs

[Friends with Benedicts]

Escrito originalmente por Quillithe:

Escrito originalmente por Friends with Benedicts:

monks are always op in every crpg ive played idk why.

Usually they wont have aoe but 1v1 they are immortal.

Also you dont even have to label it "martial class". Martial classes are already better generally speaking than their magic counterparts.

I'd say monks are super weak in both BG 2 and PoE.

But anyway, tavern brawler monk is strong but nowhere near as busted as other options

Like throwing thief barbarian - especially if they haven't fixed the bug that makes bonus throwing damage items trigger twice AND with the ability to do MASSIVE damage even when you miss when above a target. Because throwing does additional damage based on the object falling independently of attack rolls.

ive never playd much of BG2 unfortunately, but in PoE I found them to be really OP, although I played on RTwP and they wrecked it. Obviously I had a good back up of support with priest n druid n paladin.

Didnt tested them on PoE2 because I wanted something less op. I cant recall which class Ive beaten poe2 unfortunately, i would need to go back to my save to check.

[Baldurs_Gate_2]

Escrito originalmente por Quillithe:

Escrito originalmente por Friends with Benedicts:

monks are always op in every crpg ive played idk why.

Usually they wont have aoe but 1v1 they are immortal.

Also you dont even have to label it "martial class". Martial classes are already better generally speaking than their magic counterparts.

I'd say monks are super weak in both BG 2 and PoE.

But anyway, tavern brawler monk is strong but nowhere near as busted as other options

Like throwing thief barbarian - especially if they haven't fixed the bug that makes bonus throwing damage items trigger twice AND with the ability to do MASSIVE damage even when you miss when above a target. Because throwing does additional damage based on the object falling independently of attack rolls.

If you think Monk is weak in PoE, you definitely played them wrong.

[wendigo211]

I didn't like monks on PoE (the first one to be clear) on PotD difficulty, because they need to get hit to charge their abilities and getting hit on PotD is a bit suicidal. I can see them being better on the lower difficulties though. I had a Cipher/Monk (the type that works like a Cipher) in Darkfire and that character was insanely powerful.

[talemore]

Monks are super weak in old titles. They have super strong defenses in late game.
Armor is bad and illusions are seen through. Wizard is stronger in midgame at tanking than the monk. They're like the jester class. They don't do much for your party in dragon quest. But they get late game superpower.

4e and 5e just made everyone given their best abilities at level 1 or early on. Because it's designed the tabletop to fall apart at level 5. People need to be a cult to keep playing 5 sessions of monopoly.

[Giganx]

Escrito originalmente por Argonaut:

No battle master fighter and berserker barbarian are the strongest martial classes in the game. They can achieve similar attacks per turn with higher per hit damage and higher damage per round with superior defenses. They also benefit more from buffs like haste than monks do due to their higher per hit damage.

Tavern Brawler

If you are running tavern brawler you either have sub par AC that you cannot get away with in tactician difficulty or you are farming elixirs of hill giant strength so your entire setup depends on consumables.

Battlemaster fighter and berserker barbarian do not have this dilemma. Berserker gets resistance and advantage for free and battle master is the most versatile pure martial class in the game.

If we are more loosely about what is a martial classes oath of vengeance and oath of devotion paladin can also achieve significantly higher burst and DPR with stronger defenses and more utility.

Ring of protection and gloves that boost my dex to 18 base keep my AC reasonable, at least early on, and Tavern Brawler makes getting advantage a non-issue; my basic to hit is 90+ for pretty much everything and my 4 hits per turn at level 5 it outdamages both Barb and Fighter. I'm playing on tactician and it's been really strong so far.

At least at early levels Monk is the strongest by my estimation, but later on it'll really depend on itemization, which is why I was curious.

[oddball]

Escrito originalmente por Kernest:

Escrito originalmente por JennyTheGhoul:

I respecced Lae'zel as a monk and OMG. She was pretty lethal.

No joke, Orpheus' Honor Guard or whatever they were called were probably the toughest fight I've had in the game. I didn't even bother trying with the ones outside the portal, just leaped with one character and clicked.

Have you heard the word of our lord and savior hold person? Upcast it to hold multiple people in a single concentration slot and that fight is over before it starts as your martials can autocrit on characters that fail their save.

Humanoid enemies aren't even worth mentioning when you have an enchanter wizard, it's total comedy. And even non-humanoids fall on their knees before the power of Tasha's Hideous Laughter.

Seriously this game has two kinds of players:
* people who think wizards are for fireball and other garbage and wonder why they suck
* people who cruise through the game on autopilot because their wizard locks down entire encounters with a single action

[Mega Chonk]

To be honest , the OP stuff is tavern brawler.

[Hyena]

With the amount of CC you get, yes, easily.

[Ekelak]

With the right support it has no problems. All you need is area controls or slowdowns. It's not 1 Monk vs All

[Quillithe]

Okay, people are telling me monks are strong in PoE and I'll admit I'm probably wrong on that.

Besides which they are quite strong in NWN2, good in Wizardry, Might and Magic, etc so I'm definitely willing to agree they're usually good.

I think even BG 2 they're eventually good very late game.

Escrito originalmente por moca loca:

Have you heard the word of our lord and savior hold person? Upcast it to hold multiple people in a single concentration slot and that fight is over before it starts as your martials can autocrit on characters that fail their save.

Humanoid enemies aren't even worth mentioning when you have an enchanter wizard, it's total comedy. And even non-humanoids fall on their knees before the power of Tasha's Hideous Laughter.

Seriously this game has two kinds of players:
* people who think wizards are for fireball and other garbage and wonder why they suck
* people who cruise through the game on autopilot because their wizard locks down entire encounters with a single action

Yeah stacking spell DC makes disables crazy.

Hypnotic Pattern for winning easier fights or non human mobs

Hold person for winning any fight with humans

Laughter when you just want to use a lvl 1 spell to remove any enemy instantly

[CloudKira]

In cutscenes they look invincible.

They made the Emperor look underwhelming.

[Kernest]

Escrito originalmente por moca loca:

Have you heard the word of our lord and savior hold person?

I guess my fault was not having a spellcaster with spell DC increasing gear.

I just couldn't stand Gales chirping.

But Hold Monster (off of a scroll) is how I punked Raphael.

Fun fact, in that fight you can't cast Banish on Raphael, because Banish sends beings from different planes back to their home plane. And Raphael was home.

[Shoklar]

If you want OP - play a Sorcerer and get yourself both of the arcane battery staves and the spell slot restoration necklace. You can even pair it with a globe of invulnerability and a potion of angelic slumber and do it all over again. How many chain lightnings does it take to annihilate the entire final fight platform? Not as many as you can cast.

[Diomedes]

Escrito originalmente por Kirb:

My buddy played a Open Hand Monk and with all of his equipment he was hitting like 7 times a turn for anywhere from 26-65 damage a hit on the finale. Compared to me swinging *redacted's* greatsword at it for like 3 hits of 40-60 if I recall correctly as a Champion Fighter.

(Pure classes btw)
So quick maths based on my estimation/♥♥♥♥♥ memory
Monk O-H: 26-65 x 7 = 182 - 455 damage roughly.
Champ Fighter: 120 - 420 damage roughly.

Couple that with Monk gear gives you force damage, psychic and other stuff, rather than flat slash/pierce/bludge and monk is the clear winner, IMO.

The open hand abilities are being slept on too imo.. The fact you can choose between multiple damage types, means you can take advantage of vulnerabilities on the fly...
And I think resonant touch is incredibly powerful and slept on ability. Each turn you can get at least 3 resonant touches off, which counts as regular attacks on top of being able to do a fireball AOE detonation range of around 9d6 force damage with 1 ki point each turn. Where numerous adds become a problem with most of the martial classes due to distinct lack of AOE abilities, the open hand monk has one of the most powerful on demand ones in the game, that still has you putting out great single target damage too.