Multiclass question, wisdom vs. charisma

[Leander.quest]

I am thinking of chaning my class once again...I'd like to try a class that is tanky with many hit points, but can cast support spells and has good ranged attacks...so a class with dext and const.

The problem is that bards cast spells with charisma, but rangers use wisdom.
If I cast a spell, which attribute is used as a bard-ranger? If I am both of them...?

[Xrystus]

Rangers use wisdom for their spellcasting.

[Leander.quest]

Yes, it was a typo...but a bard-ranger is both a bard (which uses charisma to cast spells) AND a ranger (which uses wisdom to cast spells)...how do spells work as a bard-ranger?

[Mike Garrison]

Not every class synergizes well. I suggest you try mixing classes that work well together instead of forcing class combos that don't. (But it's your game.)

[Leander.quest]

Ok, but how does the game work when you use multiclasses that have different spell casting?

A wizard (int) and a sorcerer? A wizard and a bard? A cleric and a wizard?

[dolby]

Originally posted by Leander.quest:

both of them...?

both of them
depending on what class spell you cast...
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monks, ranger, cleric, druid all use wisdom
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paladin,bard, sorcerer, warlock all use charisma.
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so those use the same casting stat if multiclassed from the same group...

wizards use intellect but can learn spells from scrolls so you are not limited to spells from class lists meaning multiclass wizzards can learn higher level spells...

[BingusDingus]

Originally posted by Leander.quest:

Yes, it was a typo...but a bard-ranger is both a bard (which uses charisma to cast spells) AND a ranger (which uses wisdom to cast spells)...how do spells work as a bard-ranger?

Rangers spells will use wisdom and bard spells will use charisma.

[Callirgos]

Do Bard Ranger. Put your attribute points into Dexterity and Charisma

For the Ranger Spells take support spells that don't require high wisdom: Fog, Goodberry, talk to animals, etc.

There are a lot of spells that seem subpar, until you consider they don't need a high stat to be effective.

[Leander.quest]

Ok, thanks

[Mike Garrison]

Originally posted by Leander.quest:

Ok, but how does the game work when you use multiclasses that have different spell casting?

Sub-optimally, that's how it works.

There is a reason why sorcerers and warlocks are mixed so often that people have a name for it (sorlock) -- because they both use CHA and they synergize well. Wizard/sorcerers don't work as well. (I know, because I tried one.)

Bard and warlock would be a good fit. Warlock for eldritch blast, bard for most everything else, and CHA helping both.

[Leander.quest]

Thank you!

[Xrystus]

As for bard/ranger spellcasting, it depends on the spell cast. If the spell is chosen from the ranger, it will be cast using wisdom. If it is a spell chosen from the bard, it will be cast using charisma.

I design characters for my DnD group, so let me get some things straight first that you're wanting:
-Durable (tanky)
-Decent Hit Points
-Casts support spells
-Uses Dexterity

With this build I am assuming no gameplay buffs or character rerolls. Try this:
Lvl 1 - Start Paladin, any subclass will do. Normally they use strength, but dexterity paladins do exist. This will be one such case. This gives you proficiency in all armors, including shields. You will be using a finesse weapon, light armor, a shield, and any ranged weapon of your choice. Also gives proficiency in WIS and CHA saving throws, preventing things such as fear and charm.
Stats: 10 STR / 16 DEX / 16 CON / 8 INT / 10 WIS / 14 CHA
Choose proficiencies as you see fit.
Lvl 2 - Paladin 2. This will give you a fighting style and the ability to smite. Take defensive fighting style (yes, dualing fighting style is very enticing, but I am assuming no class rerolls here, you'll see why in a bit.) From here on, pick any spell you desire. Bless is a very powerful support spell.
Lvl 3 - Multiclass into Bard. This gives cantrips for ranged attacks and utility while giving you support spell options and bardic inspiration. Unlike DnD 5e, you don't need STR to be 13 to multiclass in or out of Paladin. Most of your support spells will come from the Bard.
Lvl 4 - Bard 2. Another proficiency and Jack of all Trades, making your character a powerful "face" for the party. Also you get Song of Rest, essentially a 3rd short rest.
Lvl 5 - Bard 3. Choose the College of Swords subclass. This gives you the dualing fighting style (only other option is 2 weapon fighting) and flourishes. These are Battlemaster-esque uses for your bardic inspiration for extra damage and other effects such as extra armor. You also get expertise in 2 proficiencies.
Lvl 6 - Bard 4. Ability score improvement - Dexterity +2 to 18.
Lvl 7 - Bard 5. This gives Font of Inspiration, allowing you to regain Bardic Inspiration on short rests, meaning more flourishes more often.
Lvl 8 - Bard 6. This gives the VERY much needed Extra Attack feature. Up until this point, flourishes and smites are your primary damage dealers, but those hit like a truck, so it isn't too bad.
Lvl 9 - Paladin 3. Back to Paladin, our goal is to get Paladin 4 for the better health scaling and the Ability Improvement at Paladin 4. This level gives you Divine Health, an anti-disease feature.
Lvl 10 - Paladin 4. Ability Score Improvement - Dexterity +2 to 20.
Lvl 11 - Bard 7. Back to Bard, aiming for a feat at Bard 8. This level just increases your spell slots.
Lvl 12 - Bard 8. Feat - Tough, increasing your health by 2 per level (+24 in this case, a massive jump).

With this, you are durable, heavy hitting, can fight at any range using dexterity, and chock full of support spells all of which are cast with charisma. Enjoy!

[Husker_85]

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

Bard and warlock would be a good fit. Warlock for eldritch blast, bard for most everything else, and CHA helping both.

There's another Bardlock build where you go 7 levels into Bard and 5 into Warlock to get the extra attack from Pact of the Blade because it stacks with the extra attack from any other class. Go College of Swords and take the Devil's Sight and One with Shadows invocations to disappear into clouds of darkness and dice enemies up with your pact-bound rapier.

[Leander.quest]

Awesome, thank you very much!

My only problem is that you need an oath that can be broken. I don't remember what I did some time ago (when testing a paladin) and did not like a broken oath or the high amount of gold to fix it.

[Xrystus]

Originally posted by Leander.quest:

Awesome, thank you very much!

My only problem is that you need an oath that can be broken. I don't remember what I did some time ago (when testing a paladin) and did not like a broken oath or the high amount of gold to fix it.

If you're talking about mine, a lot of the abilities won't be used much and you won't be picking up any of the late game paladin features that matter. Mostly you'll be picking up paladin for the armor, fighting style, and smites. The rest you can just ignore, even if your oath breaks. If I had to choose one, I'd pick Oath of the Ancients since its one of the best heals early game. Beyond that, breaking your oath won't have much of an effect, your smites on top of flourishes will be doing the talking.
Edit: Oath of Vengeance is arguably the toughest to break if I recall correctly.

[Leander.quest]

Thanks!