Gortash

[Malicite]

This is just an opinion, so no need for hostility.


Just met him for the first time towards the end of Act 2. His conversation with Orin and Ketheric Thorm. Did anyone else find him cartoonish? It really took me out of the immersion of the game. Kind of felt the same way about Orin as well. The next scene with just the two of them ( Orin and Gortash, start of act 3 I guess). I don't know if it was the voice actor or the writing, but I was rooting for Ketheric to just bash him with his hammer in their scene.

[Reaver79]

Messaggio originale di Knight Hospitaller:

Ketheric is voiced by J.K. Simmons

Explains why the rest of em seems so pathetic in comparison..

Yes Gortash & Orin both seem very poorly written..
Very hard to take the muder hobo who never strikes serious..

[The_Dipl0mat]

Messaggio originale di EbenezerSlack:

JK Simmons phoned it in for this. He sounded bored throughout. Rushed introduction, and a rushed ‘sending off’, like all the antagonists in the game, because Larian are too incompetent to properly develop their antagonists.

Orin’s dialogue warrants some new category in The Razzies just to make the direness of it official. Execrable writing. She’s like a six year old’s idea of a comic relief character.

Gortash looks like a cartoon Noel Fielding. But he’s easily the best written and voice acted of the antagonists, by miles. He’s about the only sane, sober, intelligent take on a ‘villain’ – quality understated conniving.

But he seems to be too ‘adult’ for the Larian’s core audience, who lap up all the bad writing because they seem to have very little life experience. It’s the only reason I can think of for the naivety of the praise.

I’ve worked with plenty of ‘villains’ like the Gortash character. They speak and act exactly like this. And they’re also in similar positions of political influence. Whoever wrote this guy is a freak among Larian’s otherwise wackadoddle writing staff.

He also has the sanest motives for being an antagonist. Proper shades of grey. Whereas everyone else is some kind of OTT fantasy moustache-twirling cliché – Minthara, Raphael, etc.

I actually think the campy over-design of the Gortash character was added to compensate for his normality as an antagonist. Larian’s creative team see every character through the lens of high-camp. If they don’t have at least some wacky pantomime song – sung by the villain himself of course – then they’re ‘dull’.

Overall, the game’s writing is potentially the worst I’ve ever encountered in video games, and I played Dragon Age Inquisition, which I thought couldn’t be topped. The big budget just magnified the ineptitude of Larian’s really goofy writing team.

I honestly feel like JK Simmons VA works as "bored" really plays out how it is. He's bored. He wants to just, finally take over. He's working with children, and he knows it. He is a lord/general who knows how to get ♥♥♥♥ actually done

No general actually likes working with politicans, especially ones like Gortash.

Gortash fits the campy role of ♥♥♥♥♥♥ politican who uses his followers as weapons (hence why its recommended to take out Steel Watch)
Though I do say his body doesnt match his actions. I feel something more, idk. Penguin from DC like would be fitting? A fat, charismatic politican.

With Orin, I feel like it'd be fun to hear more second hand remarks from her followers about how annoying she is and how much they dislike her. Shes just a kid with a knife basically. No real control skills

[LexingtonSeal]

Messaggio originale di Malicite:

Kudos to you for bringing "The Mighty Boosh" into a setting I never thought possible. I'm already in this game for 2 acts, guess I have to see it out to the end to witness the absurdness of Orin and the grey machinations of Gortash.

Won’t add spoilers, but your first interaction with Noel Fielding in Act 3 is the best writing in the entire game. A very positive start.

I was really convinced they were somehow going to turn the whole thing around.

Alas, it’s all squandered. Gets no further development, from what I can tell. I stopped playing the game a few hours into Act 3. I realised life is too short. Some seem to think a ‘definitive edition’ will save it. Not me.

[Malicite]

Messaggio originale di EbenezerSlack:

Messaggio originale di Malicite:

Kudos to you for bringing "The Mighty Boosh" into a setting I never thought possible. I'm already in this game for 2 acts, guess I have to see it out to the end to witness the absurdness of Orin and the grey machinations of Gortash.

Won’t add spoilers, but your first interaction with Noel Fielding in Act 3 is the best writing in the entire game. A very positive start.

I was really convinced they were somehow going to turn the whole thing around.

Alas, it’s all squandered. Gets no further development, from what I can tell. I stopped playing the game a few hours into Act 3. I realised life is too short. Some seem to think a ‘definite edition’ will save it. Not me.

Now I'm intrigued to see this first interaction with him. Sorry to hear you didn't finish the game though. I heard Act 3 is rough. I've got the "in for a penny, in for a pound" mentality right now with the game. I figure if I finish it once, I won't have to worry about running it again and can just head canon the end of it. If I can't finish it for whatever reason, then so be it.

[LexingtonSeal]

Messaggio originale di Tinball:

Worst villain since Armitage Hux. Gortash is no Irenicus.

Not a surprising remark from the guy who thinks the Raphael pantomime song is ‘lit’.

Raphael is so camp that if he was a deliberate parody you’d write him off as a take too far.

Messaggio originale di The_Dipl0mat:

I honestly feel like JK Simmons VA works as "bored" really plays out how it is. He's bored. He wants to just, finally take over. He's working with children, and he knows it. He is a lord/general who knows how to get ♥♥♥♥ actually done

[...]

Gortash fits the campy role of ♥♥♥♥♥♥ politican who uses his followers as weapons

Have to disagree. I heard Simmons audibly sigh during one particularly weak piece of dialogue as if he couldn’t wait to be done with it.

Just google any of the Omni-man scenes and compare them to his take on this character. There’s no enthusiasm for the lines he was handed. I’ve never seen this guy not give it 100% until now.

As for Gortash – the design is high-camp. But there’s actually zero camp in the voice acting. If you’ve a youtube link that says otherwise, I’ll definitely check it out. But the voice actor’s delivery is the antithesis of the character’s physical design: restrained, measured, Irenicus-esque.

Orin is the result of giving one of their lead writers too much creative free reign to do whatever they wanted without any critical input.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Messaggio originale di EbenezerSlack:

Messaggio originale di Tinball:

Worst villain since Armitage Hux. Gortash is no Irenicus.

Not a surprising remark from the guy who thinks the Raphael pantomime song is ‘lit’.

Raphael is so camp that if he was a deliberate parody you’d write him off as a take too far.

Messaggio originale di The_Dipl0mat:

I honestly feel like JK Simmons VA works as "bored" really plays out how it is. He's bored. He wants to just, finally take over. He's working with children, and he knows it. He is a lord/general who knows how to get ♥♥♥♥ actually done

[...]

Gortash fits the campy role of ♥♥♥♥♥♥ politican who uses his followers as weapons

Have to disagree. I heard Simmons audibly sigh during one particularly weak piece of dialogue as if he couldn’t wait to be done with it.

Just google any of the Omni-man scenes and compare them to his take on this character. There’s no enthusiasm for the lines he was handed, or the character. I’ve never seen this guy not give it 100% until now.

As for Gortash – the design is high-camp. But there’s actually zero camp in the voice acting. If you’ve a youtube link that says otherwise, I’ll definitely check it out. But the voice actor’s delivery is the antithesis of the character’s psychical design: restrained, measured, Irenicus-esque.

Orin is the result of giving one of their lead writers too much creative free reign to do whatever they wanted without any critical input.

I dont think I heard that, but I do have the Goodwill quality ears. I did a quick bit of research and it does seem that it was just audio in general

I do wish they made better use of him though. Personally, I'm happy with it but I can understand why others arent. He's an amazing VA who should have his talents used to the fullest. I wish he lasted more than one act

I hope we can both agree though, his intro was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awesome


Yeah, I do feel thats one of his weak points as well. They got good VAs, but not the right delivery


Yeah, idk whats up with Orin. At least they made her annoying on purpose? Compared to whats her face from BL3

[Brian Sirith]

Yup, both Gortash and especially Orin are extremely cartoonish. I especially disliked Orin, not a fan of villains who won’t shut up either. While Orin is no Irenicus -the worst ever won’t-shut-up villain- she comes quite close. Killed them early on.

[Gracey Face]

Messaggio originale di EbenezerSlack:

Have to disagree. I heard Simmons audibly sigh during one particularly weak piece of dialogue as if he couldn’t wait to be done with it.

I don't know how his lines got in to the game. He has the same flat almost monotonous delivery all the time, even when he is supposed to be raising his voice and you can tell that he is supposed to be raising his voice because he amps up the scratchy quality of it, but then it is still just the same volume and tempo.

And there's multiple instances where he raises the pitch of his voice at the end of sentences which are not questions, a couple of times he does it when he is supposed to be making "profound" statements.

Did they not have enough money to make him do second takes or hire a replacement?


Also his cutscenes are just awful. Like at one point they specifically have a goblin throw an axe through his chest, his armored chest, and his armor remains perfectly intact and just gets slightly discoloured. Like if you're going to make a point of showcasing it you think you'd actually showcase it. Could have even made his awful looking armor marginally interesting to have the gash in there, but no.


It's like everything about him is half assed.

[LexingtonSeal]

Messaggio originale di Gracey Face:

Did they not have enough money to make him do second takes or hire a replacement

Haha – this sums it all up. I seem to remember someone making a similar point, as even his audio goes up and down, depending on the scene, as if it was an old recording (aka, they weren’t gonna pay him to do a ‘second take’).

Irenicus was, of course, one of the best villains in gaming history. The excellently acted, and comparatively excellently written, Gortash could’ve been a modern Irenicus. Introduce him at the start, stick with the political conniving and it might make you forget about all the rest of the high-camp dross with ‘I’m just going to take my top off and have a chat with you’ The Emperor and ‘I’ve my own pantomime theme song’ Raphael.

When Raphael dies, he should explode in a shower of rainbows.

And then cackle that ‘this isn’t the end’.

It’s so bad lol.

I wouldn’t buy another DnD game from them. Not even if it didn’t have the Baldur’s Gate name to it.

Their uniquely terrible writing, however, gave the DOS series a certain bonkers flavour that no one else could – or should – try to emulate. That’s where they should keep their writers. And that’s where they should go next, and drop their association with the Wokests of The Shady Cabal.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Messaggio originale di EbenezerSlack:

Messaggio originale di Gracey Face:

Did they not have enough money to make him do second takes or hire a replacement

Haha – this sums it all up. I seem to remember someone making a similar point, as even his audio goes up and down, depending on the scene, as if it was an old recording (aka, they weren’t gonna pay him to do a ‘second take’).

Irenicus was, of course, one of the best villains in gaming history. The excellently acted, and comparatively excellently written, Gortash could’ve been a modern Irenicus. Introduce him at the start, stick with the political conniving and it might make you forget about all the rest of the high-camp dross with ‘I’m just going to take my top off and have a chat with you’ The Emperor and ‘I’ve my own pantomime theme song’ Raphael.

When Raphael dies, he should explode in a shower of rainbows.

And then cackle that ‘this isn’t the end’.

It’s so bad lol.

I wouldn’t buy another DnD game from them. Not even if it didn’t have the Baldur’s Gate name to it.

Their uniquely terrible writing, however, gave the DOS series a certain bonkers flavour that no one else could – or should – try to emulate. That’s where they should keep their writers. And that’s where they should go next, and drop their association with the Wokests of The Shady Cabal.

I've heard that as well, and it feels maybe they tried getting a *really* good VA for the role, but didnt have the budget to actually afford a decent version? Its like paying for 5 minutes worth of some party favor at an all night party.

Tbh Raphael did feel, really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ great. Egotistical bastard who genuinely thinks he has the upper hand and is several steps ahead. And thinks so rightfully so. I mean, when you're a conniving demon who managed to make all the pieces come together so you can eventually get the crown of Karsus, thats pretty damn good. Then you piss him off, and he still thinks he can beat you, thinking himself better than an avatar of death for some narcissistic reason.

[Gracey Face]

Messaggio originale di EbenezerSlack:

When Raphael dies, he should explode in a shower of rainbows.

And then cackle that ‘this isn’t the end’ or something equally naff..

I personally liked everything with Raphael as it's one of the only times the game is good. I mean compare Raphael to thorm.

Thorm's motivation is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ absolutely ridiculous garbage. The specifics of his storyline don't make sense. He spends all of his screentime being bored and quietly speaking into the mic. He surrenders to you like 4 times and then takes it back immediately after every surrender like he has no idea where he is or what is happening or what he is saying. Then you have a fight where he becomes the avatar of a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ god and all he does is sit in place and do nothing and then get killed, and then after you kill him a pathetic bull ♥♥♥♥ desecrates his corpse in what seems like it is meant to be a truimphant scene but is it just a pathetic weakling violating the corpse of someone they didn't have the strength to fight while they were still alive.

What the ♥♥♥♥ was even that?

Raphael has a coherent set of motives. His storyline makes sense. All of his dialogue works and makers sense. His voice actor actually voice acts. All of the interactions with him set a consistent campy tone. The fight with him is actually a well laid out set piece battle. And by setting hope free you actually get a decent closure to the fight instead of "WE HAVE CRUSHED HIS BRAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[LexingtonSeal]

Messaggio originale di The_Dipl0mat:

Tbh Raphael did feel, really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ great. Egotistical bastard who genuinely thinks he has the upper hand and is several steps ahead.

I said it before, but Gaunter O'Dimm is how you write an intelligent devil character.

Raphael’s lines are so overwritten it’s excruciating to read/listen to them.

Anyway, it’s all a matter of taste. I look for fiction that emulates the conniving hypocrites that exist in reality. At least then I know the writer is a ‘quick study’ of human behaviour.

Outside of Gortash, every character in BG3 indicates a harmless, naïve intellect at work. Someone who does not understand human beings, the writerly equivalent of a social leper.

Could care less either way. Outside of certain indie devs (Team Cherry etc), the whole game industry is fuelled by highly educated, talented devs who are in lifelong servitude to creative hacks.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Messaggio originale di EbenezerSlack:

Messaggio originale di The_Dipl0mat:

Tbh Raphael did feel, really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ great. Egotistical bastard who genuinely thinks he has the upper hand and is several steps ahead.

I said it before, but Gaunter O'Dimm is how you write an intelligent devil character.

Raphael’s lines are so overwritten it’s excruciating to read/listen to them.

Anyway, it’s all a matter of taste. I look for fiction that emulates the conniving hypocrites that exist in reality. At least then I know the writer is a ‘quick study’ of human behaviour.

Outside of Gortash, every character in BG3 is indicates a harmless, naïve intellect at work. Someone who does not understand human beings, the writerly equivalent of a social leper.

Could care less either way. Outside of certain indie devs (Team Cherry etc), the whole game industry is fuelled by highly educated, talented devs who are in lifelong servitude to creative hacks.

I uh, have zero clue who that is

And yeah, thats the cool thing about these forums is being able to see peoples differing tastes. Even if you disagree, you can still see em!

Gods yeah, it does say a lot if a'ight writing becomes the highest quality simply due to piss poor writing all around

[wagg40k]

Skeletor and Hordak have more grounded villain presence than Gortash and Orin.

[The_Dipl0mat]

Messaggio originale di wagg40k:

Skeletor and Hordak have more grounded villain presence than Gortash and Orin.

Lord Hater and that irish duck from Duck Tales have a better presence than them as is