Opening scene spoiler discussion

[Mister Sir]

So this is gonna spoil some huge stuff about the game, if you have not experiences this ambrosia for yourself, go and get till you do.

Now, for the rest of us educated gentlemen and wahmen. If you played a least up to act 3, you might realize that the mind flayer that infected you and your companions on the nautiloid looks exactly like Emperor. No other mind flayer got that armor and I think it even been somewhat confirmed that it was him. We also know that he was sent by Gortesh to collect the astral prism and the fight at the beginning was a result of that, however the details and order of the events gets a bit muddy here for me.

So for one, if emperor just stole the prism, why is his first order of actions is come to baldurs gate and wreck ♥♥♥♥? He seem to be already out of elder brains control cause of the dead mind flayers around. Also how did shadowheart got the prism and then got captured? Don't Emperor needs to be inside the prism for it to work on him? Cause I was under the impression thas the case since he basically never leaves it while orpehus is still alive. I only recall him sending the guardian projections, which I don't think is actually him, just an illusion.

[Raelic]

No it doesn't. The eye color isn't the same. The Emperor's eye color also doesn't change in any of the scenes you have with him. This was posted to me somewhere before so I paid attention in one playthrough throughout.

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

Now, for the rest of us educated gentlemen and wahmen. If you played a least up to act 3, you might realize that the mind flayer that infected you and your companions on the nautiloid looks exactly like Emperor.

The souls thing is also a myth too. Mindflayers, IMO, have souls. At the end of Act 2, if you talk to Withers in Moonrise... He'll say they don't have Apostolic souls. They still have souls.

[The_Dipl0mat]

We see Mindflayers can just kinda, grow their own armor. I think? There were a few significantly not naked mindlflayers we fought in act 3 after the turning

[Mister Sir]

Originally posted by Raelic:

No it doesn't. The eye color isn't the same.

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

Now, for the rest of us educated gentlemen and wahmen. If you played a least up to act 3, you might realize that the mind flayer that infected you and your companions on the nautiloid looks exactly like Emperor.

Hmmm thats true, and the eyes at the start are exactly same as that of an elder brain, which makes me wonder if perhaps thats the case for all mind flayers? Which could explain why emperors eyes are purple, maybe they are changed after he came in contact with a prism? It just hard to believe that it's not him when no other mind flayer that I know of has that armor.

[Mister Sir]

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

We see Mindflayers can just kinda, grow their own armor. I think? There were a few significantly not naked mindlflayers we fought in act 3 after the turning

They can, but I can't seem to find any other mind flayer having that armor. It just seem like a vert strange detail to have where mind flayer that infects you has same armor as emperor but is not him, while also not giving that armor to any other mind flayer in the entire game.

[Raelic]

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

Originally posted by Raelic:

No it doesn't. The eye color isn't the same.

Hmmm thats true, and the eyes at the start are exactly same as that of an elder brain, which makes me wonder if perhaps thats the case for all mind flayers? Which could explain why emperors eyes are purple, maybe they are changed after he came in contact with a prism? It just hard to believe that it's not him when no other mind flayer that I know of has that armor.

Even when he sides with the absolute, his eye color doesn't change.

[El Pollo Loco]

It absolutely is the Emperor. The eye colour is different because that scene has been pre-rendered for 4 years or so, since way back in EA, and they did not waste resources to make small changes to it when they later changed his eye colour.
Search images for 'bg3 ea poster' and you'll see for yourself. That is Emperor on the poster, it's definitely not some random mindflayer.

It happened something like this:

Shadowhear and her team of edgy Sharrans were sent to steal the Prism. They succeeded. At the same time, Emperor and his team were sent to do the same thing on the Nautiloid.
It is not clear or important how things exactly happened here, if githyanki killed sharrans, or mindflayers, or both, but important thing is, that all Sharrans except Shadowhear died.
Emperor captured Shadowheart and the Prism.

Emperor discovers he is free from the hive-mind, bla-bla. He hatches a scheme quickly since he's extremely intelligent - the entire plan with getting to the brain, bla bla - except you are his tools the entire time. He is manipulating you from the start because he knows he needs to stay in the Prism.

He likely quickly abducts a bunch of people to build a force to defend Orpheus from the honor guard before this thralls can carry out the other part of his plan.

All those intellect devourers fighting the githyanki in the astral realm came from somewhere.

[Raelic]

That's a lot of assumptions you got there. And while it could be true that changing the cinematic would be costly, it would not be costly to change his eyecolor throughout the rest of the game.

Also, he only shows up outside of the prism after you get the first Netherstone.

[talemore]

It goes nowhere and has no explanation.

Some said that Divinity original sin was muddy but this story kills off their protagonists and derail it into a story about Darth Vader fighting the emperor.

[El Pollo Loco]

Originally posted by Raelic:

That's a lot of assumptions you got there. And while it could be true that changing the cinematic would be costly, it would not be costly to change his eyecolor throughout the rest of the game.

Also, he only shows up outside of the prism after you get the first Netherstone.

I have no idea what are you saying.
It would not be costly to change his eye colours in rest of the game? to what?
They used to be orange. Then they decided to go with purple. So they are purple now in rest of the game. But not in the intro, cause they did not bother re-rendering it. What additional changing do you want in rest of the game?

The second point - do you think he was born in Prism? He came under influence of Orpheus when NEAR the prism, thought the situation over with his free mind, made whatever preparations he could, and retreated into the Prism to be close to Orpheus and keep the honour guard away.

You call my theory full of assumptions, but your theory is what? that there was another random mindflayer who did all the things in the intro with no clear motivation, happening to have very iconic armor that no other mindflayer has in the rest of the game. Meanwhile, the cosmic intellect Emperor was roaming about, controlled by the hivemind, and then during the crash, he just so happened to fall exactly into the Prism, landed on Orpheus, and then when he became free.

Okay, I guess.

Also, I do not accept things Emperor said as proof for anything. Emperor says things. He says 'oh I totally could not have left before I wanted to see the stone for myself' and he says 'bro believe me only I can protect you, you can't free orpheus (or in any way go against my will) like literally I am the only one who can protect you even though it's not even my own power I am using, you have to believe me bro'.

[Raelic]

Originally posted by Σίσυφος:

Originally posted by Raelic:

That's a lot of assumptions you got there. And while it could be true that changing the cinematic would be costly, it would not be costly to change his eyecolor throughout the rest of the game.

Also, he only shows up outside of the prism after you get the first Netherstone.

I have no idea what are you saying.
It would not be costly to change his eye colours in rest of the game? to what?
They used to be orange. Then they decided to go with purple. So they are purple now in rest of the game. But not in the intro, cause they did not bother re-rendering it. What additional changing do you want in rest of the game?

The second point - do you think he was born in Prism? He came under influence of Orpheus when NEAR the prism, thought the situation over with his free mind, made whatever preparations he could, and retreated into the Prism to be close to Orpheus and keep the honour guard away.

You call my theory full of assumptions, but your theory is what? that there was another random mindflayer who did all the things in the intro with no clear motivation, happening to have very iconic armor that no other mindflayer has in the rest of the game. Meanwhile, the cosmic intellect Emperor was roaming about, controlled by the hivemind, and then during the crash, he just so happened to fall exactly into the Prism, landed on Orpheus, and then when he became free.

Okay, I guess.

Also, I do not accept things Emperor said as proof for anything. Emperor says things. He says 'oh I totally could not have left before I wanted to see the stone for myself' and he says 'bro believe me only I can protect you, you can't free orpheus (or in any way go against my will) like literally I am the only one who can protect you even though it's not even my own power I am using, you have to believe me bro'.

If the eye color doesn't match the rendered scene. Sure, it makes sense that it's too costly to update the rendered scene. But, you could also update the model in game to match the rendered scene instead of vice versa.

Well, saying it was assumptions was my way of quickly not dismantling it line by line, but you're also ignoring the biggest plot hole in your theory...

He'd already escaped the Mind Flayers Elder Brain and had been living in Baldur's Gate.

Originally posted by Σίσυφος:

At the same time, Emperor and his team were sent to do the same thing on the Nautiloid.

The Emperor had a life and even dragon in Baldur's Gate. He didn't have some team of the Elder Brain. He has long been free.

I just don't like going through and editing each line of long posts to respond piece meal to them.

Edit Dos: Also, people don't have to make up their own theory to point out flaws in your theory. I don't know what's been going on because the game hasn't told me. I don't expect to know everything. I do have theories about the game, but I'm open to criticism when I post them and I don't think others need a theory about the same scenario I've thought of.

[Mister Sir]

Originally posted by Raelic:

Originally posted by Σίσυφος:

I have no idea what are you saying.
It would not be costly to change his eye colours in rest of the game? to what?
They used to be orange. Then they decided to go with purple. So they are purple now in rest of the game. But not in the intro, cause they did not bother re-rendering it. What additional changing do you want in rest of the game?

The second point - do you think he was born in Prism? He came under influence of Orpheus when NEAR the prism, thought the situation over with his free mind, made whatever preparations he could, and retreated into the Prism to be close to Orpheus and keep the honour guard away.

You call my theory full of assumptions, but your theory is what? that there was another random mindflayer who did all the things in the intro with no clear motivation, happening to have very iconic armor that no other mindflayer has in the rest of the game. Meanwhile, the cosmic intellect Emperor was roaming about, controlled by the hivemind, and then during the crash, he just so happened to fall exactly into the Prism, landed on Orpheus, and then when he became free.

Okay, I guess.

Also, I do not accept things Emperor said as proof for anything. Emperor says things. He says 'oh I totally could not have left before I wanted to see the stone for myself' and he says 'bro believe me only I can protect you, you can't free orpheus (or in any way go against my will) like literally I am the only one who can protect you even though it's not even my own power I am using, you have to believe me bro'.

If the eye color doesn't match the rendered scene. Sure, it makes sense that it's too costly to update the rendered scene. But, you could also update the model in game to match the rendered scene instead of vice versa.

Well, saying it was assumptions was my way of quickly not dismantling it line by line, but you're also ignoring the biggest plot hole in your theory...

He'd already escaped the Mind Flayers Elder Brain and had been living in Baldur's Gate.

Originally posted by Σίσυφος:

At the same time, Emperor and his team were sent to do the same thing on the Nautiloid.

The Emperor had a life and even dragon in Baldur's Gate. He didn't have some team of the Elder Brain. He has long been free.

I just don't like going through and editing each line of long posts to respond piece meal to them.

Edit Dos: Also, people don't have to make up their own theory to point out flaws in your theory. I don't know what's been going on because the game hasn't told me. I don't expect to know everything. I do have theories about the game, but I'm open to criticism when I post them and I don't think others need a theory about the same scenario I've thought of.

I do personally think it was the emperor despite the eye color because of all the other details that line up. The armor, the place, the time. Also it's glossed over later but initially you are presented with an idea that your tadpoles were tempered with. Later when prism gets more explanation it's sort of swept away but I do not think it's due to negligence.

Here is what I mean. When we learn about emperor and stalamane or whatever was that dukes name, he says they were friends. However then it is revealed he was mind controlling her, which adds up with seemingly throw away line from wyll that it looks like she was under possession under some point. Same thing with tadpoles being tempered, yeah the prism prevents you from being controlled and turned, however I think the tempering was still there, preventing them from being removed. Both gith and hag were confident that they can take it out and both failed and were surprised.

Based on all that I think it's safe to assume that the one who tempered with them was the mindflayer that gave them to you. It makes the most sense that it was emperor who tempered with them so that you can't remove them and is bound to him, rather than some random mind flayer doing that or something else entirely off screen that we never see or learn more about.

[El Pollo Loco]

Originally posted by Raelic:

Originally posted by Σίσυφος:

I have no idea what are you saying.
It would not be costly to change his eye colours in rest of the game? to what?
They used to be orange. Then they decided to go with purple. So they are purple now in rest of the game. But not in the intro, cause they did not bother re-rendering it. What additional changing do you want in rest of the game?

The second point - do you think he was born in Prism? He came under influence of Orpheus when NEAR the prism, thought the situation over with his free mind, made whatever preparations he could, and retreated into the Prism to be close to Orpheus and keep the honour guard away.

You call my theory full of assumptions, but your theory is what? that there was another random mindflayer who did all the things in the intro with no clear motivation, happening to have very iconic armor that no other mindflayer has in the rest of the game. Meanwhile, the cosmic intellect Emperor was roaming about, controlled by the hivemind, and then during the crash, he just so happened to fall exactly into the Prism, landed on Orpheus, and then when he became free.

Okay, I guess.

Also, I do not accept things Emperor said as proof for anything. Emperor says things. He says 'oh I totally could not have left before I wanted to see the stone for myself' and he says 'bro believe me only I can protect you, you can't free orpheus (or in any way go against my will) like literally I am the only one who can protect you even though it's not even my own power I am using, you have to believe me bro'.

If the eye color doesn't match the rendered scene. Sure, it makes sense that it's too costly to update the rendered scene. But, you could also update the model in game to match the rendered scene instead of vice versa.

Well, saying it was assumptions was my way of quickly not dismantling it line by line, but you're also ignoring the biggest plot hole in your theory...

He'd already escaped the Mind Flayers Elder Brain and had been living in Baldur's Gate.

Originally posted by Σίσυφος:

At the same time, Emperor and his team were sent to do the same thing on the Nautiloid.

The Emperor had a life and even dragon in Baldur's Gate. He didn't have some team of the Elder Brain. He has long been free.

I just don't like going through and editing each line of long posts to respond piece meal to them.

Edit Dos: Also, people don't have to make up their own theory to point out flaws in your theory. I don't know what's been going on because the game hasn't told me. I don't expect to know everything. I do have theories about the game, but I'm open to criticism when I post them and I don't think others need a theory about the same scenario I've thought of.

I don't think we're understanding each other correctly, otherwise... I have trouble understanding your logic.

When you say 'If the eye color doesn't match the rendered scene. Sure, it makes sense that it's too costly to update the rendered scene. But, you could also update the model in game to match the rendered scene instead of vice versa.' it just doesn't make sense.

They were making the game, it was in early access. They envisioned the Emperor with orange eyes. They made the cutscene. They were working on the game normally. At some point during development, the design team decided to give him purple eyes, most likely to make him a little bit more unique-looking. However, they decided not to re-do the pre-rendered scene, and spend those resources on more important thing.
So it doesn't really make sense to say 'they did not have to re-do the cutscene, they could have re-done the model in-game' because the whole point of why in-game he doesn't have orange eyes is that they don't want him to have orange eyes.
I hope that was clearer if I wasn't before.

The other plot hole thing, I am sorry friend but you have that timeline very wrong. That is not a theory, that is quite clearly discernible from books, letters, and dialogues in-game, but depending on if you read all the books and letters, and what kind of dialogue choices you choose, I can understand how it can be missed.

The timeline of events is :

Some 100 to 200 years ago, Balduran arrives at Moonrise Towers. He gets captured by Illithids, and made into a Mindflayer. At this point, the Dead Three, and the whole plot of the game are not involved yet.

He spends some time as mindflayer, mindflayering about, we don't know how long.

He gets rescued by Ansur. He lives in Baldur's Gate for a time in care of Ansur who is trying to heal him. We don't know how long.

Ansur tries to mercy-kill him. Mindflayer Balduran kills him.

Mindflayer Balduran continues living in Baldur's Gate. He is far enough from the mindflayer colony to remain living freely. He also has arcane potential, which further makes him more resistant to hive-mind than regular mindflayer, but not drastically.

At some point, enough time has passed since Moonrise Towers happened (he likely spent decades as hive-mind mindflayer, and decades living in Baldur's Gate at this point) that Stelmane comes into play. They form a partnership, and run the Knights of the Shield together. Mindflayer Balduran acquires the nickname 'Emperor' due to his substantial influence in the underworlds and politics of Baldur's Gate.

At this point, we are nearing the start of the game. At some point, Gortash discovers the truth behind the individual called 'the Emperor'. He captures him, and brings him to Moonrise Towers, where he falls under control of the enslaved Elder Brain, effectively under control of the Dead Three.

The Dead Three decide to raid the githyanki for the Prism, and form a task-force to go retrieve it on a nautiloid, and they assign Emperor as the pilot.

This timeline of events is not theory. Maybe I got some minor details wrong or ommitted, but he was not free as you said. If you do not believe me, you can consult a wiki of your choice, or I suppose replay the game and watch out for the letters, books and dialogues that confirm this. There is even a cutscene where Emperor describes how he was free in Baldur's Gate, and then got captured by Gortash, who brough him into mind-hive again. And it's a cutscene, you have the visuals and everything.

[El Pollo Loco]

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

So this is gonna spoil some huge stuff about the game, if you have not experiences this ambrosia for yourself, go and get till you do.

Now, for the rest of us educated gentlemen and wahmen. If you played a least up to act 3, you might realize that the mind flayer that infected you and your companions on the nautiloid looks exactly like Emperor. No other mind flayer got that armor and I think it even been somewhat confirmed that it was him. We also know that he was sent by Gortesh to collect the astral prism and the fight at the beginning was a result of that, however the details and order of the events gets a bit muddy here for me.

So for one, if emperor just stole the prism, why is his first order of actions is come to baldurs gate and wreck ♥♥♥♥? He seem to be already out of elder brains control cause of the dead mind flayers around. Also how did shadowheart got the prism and then got captured? Don't Emperor needs to be inside the prism for it to work on him? Cause I was under the impression thas the case since he basically never leaves it while orpehus is still alive. I only recall him sending the guardian projections, which I don't think is actually him, just an illusion.

OP, to answer a few more of your points.
How Shadowheart got the prism and got captured?
-Hear strike team was successful, and stole the Prism. But it was a three-way skirmish when Nautiloid arrived. Shadowheart got captured, along with the Prism, which the Emperor came for. The Prism doesn't protect you from being defeated and taken somewhere and put in a pod and have stuff taken from you. It just has some range of hive-mind disruption.

Does he need to be in the Prism for it to work on him?
-There is no reason to believe that unless you are 100% insistent that Emperor would never-ever tell you something that is not 100% pure truth without omissions or being vague.

So, he has himself, and he can make some thralls. When I say 'thralls' this is what I mean - he infects some people with the tadpole, so that they are invested in the whole thing. Otherwise, he'd just be releasing people who would go '♥♥♥♥ this ♥♥♥♥, I am getting as far away from the whole situation as I can if I survive this'. He also knows the tadpoles will give them an edge, and they will not run away from him, because they need to stay close to the Prism, in which he resides. He then manipulates these people with his superior intellect and planning, as well as illusion magic, not some sort of direct mind-control.

To summarize again, his cards are : Himself, and the thralls. 2 teams, 2 tasks. Someone needs to work on the outside to stop the plot of the Dead Three, and someone needs to stay in the Prism to keep the honour guard away. I think it is pretty logical how he did it. it would be pretty weird if he went out into world to singel-handedly defeat a cult who already captured him once easily, and leaving 4 randoms to protect ancient githyanki prince from githyanki super-commandos.

Also, Im kind of tired of typing now, but if you finished the game, just try to replay how the events actually happened from the start, and I think you'll find some answers yourself.
Think about how Emperor's plan would have played out without complications. He didn't use to tell you yeah, it's totally possible for you to come into Prism whenever, it's like an astral plane pocket. He just summoned you briefly in your dreams.
He didn't say 'I am a mindflayer, and the power comes from a githyanki guy who is here too'. It was all vague and mysterious. It was 'I am your guardian, only I have this special power, only I will protect you. You have to completely trust me bro.'
When you are in the gith monastery, he is super insistent the whole time 'nooo, you can't come in, do not do it, what the ♥♥♥♥ bro get out'.

He only lets you into the Prism when it's life-or-death situation, as he is about to be defeated by the githyanki.

If these complications didn't happen, all you would know is that the Prism is magical, and there is a Guardian inside, and he/she has a unique power that protects you, they are your ally. The power is mysterious, but don't worry about what it is, there is Elder Brain destroying the world.

That was his plan as he envisioned it, everything else was improvisation due to complications.

// Oh and one thing I forgot. It is truth he says ' I cannot leave the Prism ' but he doesn't really say ' The power specifically only works when I am inside, and as soon as I leave even for a second, even if I stay close, it stops working.'

I mean, he cannot leave the Prism, because then who would keep the honour guard away? He even shows you there is fighting going on in the Prism in Act 1 and 2. He just illusion-magics it to appear as fancy energy-phantoms, because if you saw githyanki monks fighting intellect devourers, you'd probably go 'wait a moment, what is going on here exactly. which are our guys, the devourers or the githyanki? and why are one of them our guys?'

[talemore]

oh and the intro color on the emperor. The game uses in-game rendering. Literally just press a button to change eye color.

[talemore]

Next game they going to give you a pencil and ask you to mod the paper.