Baldur's Gate 3

Baldur's Gate 3

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Leander.quest Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:03pm
Last Light Inn is a joke, right? (spoilers)
Is Last Light Inn a joke? Did I do something wrong? But the game should not let me mess up everything.

After making it through the stupid darkness (I really hate it) I found Last Light Inn and was happy to meet all NPCs. Then all of a sudden the Flaming Fist monster appeared out of nowhere, killed the cleric whose moon shield protected Last Light Inn...and to make it worse, the whole inn turned into monsters...it was a very long fight, Jaheira died...

Now everything is a complete mess...all dead, the beloved Alfira is dead, everyone else is dead...I mean..why?

But normally, I accept all decisions and don't load save games...but how should I know the Flaming Fist something will appear?

What should I do now?

https://www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-3-last-light-inn-fist-marcus/
explains everything

But I do NOT want to read guides! I do not want to load saved games unless my entire party dies...but this design is just bad....if you don't save the cleric with the moon shield, the entire inn will be dead...I mean...this is frustrating and not fun...
But loading saves isn't the way to go in RPGs...
Last edited by Leander.quest; Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:08pm
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Showing 1-15 of 262 comments
Gracey Face Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:07pm 
Reload, that quest is ♥♥♥♥♥♥. As is every quest in the game, but that one especially. Isobel cannot defend herself, the harpers leave her completely unguarded for some reason despite all of their lives depending on her and a character getting KOed shouldn't lead into a cutscene where you then have no ability to react, it should be a set of actions for the enemy to carry off a KOed character or NPC that you can interrupt.

The game is not well made enough to warrant a bronzeman playthrough.
DietDrPibb Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:07pm 
There were several clues, did you not talk to the flaming fist dude. This fight is a good time to learn to use consumables, a few scrolls alone will win this entire fight.
Sollus Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:09pm 
Originally posted by Leander.quest:
What should I do now?

Well, I would say load up your last save, but I guess that's not an option. I know you can't prepare for every scenario, just do the best you can. I don't think blaming the game because it "should not let you mess up everything" is the right answer, though. I am curious, though, why you don't load saves. Is this part of a challenge run?
Hadradavus Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:12pm 
If you really want to keep the town around, this bit is a "reload + run it again" angle, since Last Light Inn getting wiped out messes up a "good" run really insanely since everyone dies, including all the tieflings that you saved at the Emerald Grove.
The enemies in that fight are generally trying to zerg Isobel (moreso Marcus than the other guys), and Isobel herself can be derpy and try and run away straight into eating multiple attacks of opportunity, so you'll need to play around that by making sure to keep her alive: everyone else in the Inn can die, but if Isobel falls so does the whole town.
The big thing is blowing up Marcus first, and then making sure Isobel stays alive by supporting her with stuff like Shield of Faith + healing magic + whatever else you think of, and if you want to get really advanced you can send your own party members to trigger attacks of opportunity since enemies only get one per round.
Raelic Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:14pm 
Yes, it's a shock.

But, hear me out, just roll with it. Now you know for other playthroughs. Games don't give you these experiences anymore where you genuinely can lose something truly impactful.

Embrace it. Don't hate it. The game is still very playable and winnable.

The only wrong way to play this game is to have expectations of getting everything just the way you want it.

What other game lets stuff like this happen or not happen? The only reason you could even possibly be upset is because there's potential for it not happening so you get that experience.

Other games would either not kill so many characters like that or wouldn't make it optional at all.
Last edited by Raelic; Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:15pm
wendigo211 Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:16pm 
If you don't want to reload, live with the consequences. This is actually a good thing. Larian lets you ♥♥♥♥ up and there are dire consequences for being the hero that fails to save the day. Yeah, it's a bad game state, but it is not an unrecoverable game state and you can still win the game and save the titular city.

If you don't want to live with the consequences, save games exist for a reason.
Last edited by wendigo211; Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:16pm
KocLobster Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:17pm 
I found nuking the bad guy before he could carry her away pretty easy. Not specifically trying to troll you here, but git gud.


Also, lol @ "But I dont wannnnna read guides". Well get better through trial and error then, I guess, but don't get upset when you die/fail/etc and need to reload
Last edited by KocLobster; Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:17pm
Leander.quest Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:21pm 
Up to this point, the game had been fair. Fail a test? Fail a roll? No problem as you can still continue in a different way.

If the game wants to be cruel...fine...but storywise you are happy to see the tieflings, the children...you even get new tasks by finding the husband of the grieving NPC...you meet Dammon again and another merchant...everything seems to be some light in the darkness with people you know....like a stronghold surrounded by darkness you set off for new adventures...but then you have some minutes to explore this inn before the entire place becomes hostile and everyone's dead in the end including the merchants, children...

If there was an evil path, fine...let us side with evil and kill them.

Or why doesn't the game break the shield, spawn unimportant NPCs as monsters (the ones that only have one line of dialogue)...fight them, kill them, then the story continues, but with the more important NPCs still alive.

I'm not a hardcore role player (in Skyrim I hardly ever read and listen to people...I love exploration instead) and I'm not someone that has a connection with NPCs...but even I was happy to see some tieflings I know and being a musician myself, I love Alfira's song and characer...and played my lute when I saw her...but then everyone gets killed and a big mess of dead bodies is left behind...all merchants, all new items, all new quests are gone.

I don't understand why Larian does this.

And loading saves is cheating...e.g. the boy that walks into the water..I managed to save him from the harpies, but if had died, I would not have loaded the game again....because I like consequences and outcomes, and you cannot load and save in real life either...

But this quest or part of the story is just plain evil. It's like "Oh, you clicked on something, now your wizard loses the ability to cast spells for the entire game".
Gracey Face Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:23pm 
Originally posted by wendigo211:
If you don't want to live with the consequences, save games exist for a reason.

It's not about living with the consequences though.

You see a stupid NPC who is not capable of doing even the most basic thing (despite supposedly being a high level cleric). You think to yourself "She deserves to die, I'll let her get KOed and just keep her death counter in check". Then when she gets KOed the fight just ends because your characters decide to sit there and do nothing while the guy carries her off.

It's a set of consequences that are too stupid and contradictory to the established rules that it is impossible to predict.
Leander.quest Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:24pm 
PS There will not be other playthroughs with different classes or alignments. I'm always like in real life ... so most decisions would be the same. Siding with the goblins who kill, steal, betray etc.? No way. :)
Raelic Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:26pm 
Originally posted by Leander.quest:
Up to this point, the game had been fair. Fail a test? Fail a roll? No problem as you can still continue in a different way.

If the game wants to be cruel...fine...but storywise you are happy to see the tieflings, the children...you even get new tasks by finding the husband of the grieving NPC...you meet Dammon again and another merchant...everything seems to be some light in the darkness with people you know....like a stronghold surrounded by darkness you set off for new adventures...but then you have some minutes to explore this inn before the entire place becomes hostile and everyone's dead in the end including the merchants, children...

If there was an evil path, fine...let us side with evil and kill them.

Or why doesn't the game break the shield, spawn unimportant NPCs as monsters (the ones that only have one line of dialogue)...fight them, kill them, then the story continues, but with the more important NPCs still alive.

I'm not a hardcore role player (in Skyrim I hardly ever read and listen to people...I love exploration instead) and I'm not someone that has a connection with NPCs...but even I was happy to see some tieflings I know and being a musician myself, I love Alfira's song and characer...and played my lute when I saw her...but then everyone gets killed and a big mess of dead bodies is left behind...all merchants, all new items, all new quests are gone.

I don't understand why Larian does this.

And loading saves is cheating...e.g. the boy that walks into the water..I managed to save him from the harpies, but if had died, I would not have loaded the game again....because I like consequences and outcomes, and you cannot load and save in real life either...

But this quest or part of the story is just plain evil. It's like "Oh, you clicked on something, now your wizard loses the ability to cast spells for the entire game".
There aren't paths.

Paths are a way for people to simplify a complicated game into something they can comprehend or a way for them to orient themselves around decisions in the game.

Larian does this so you can have the experience you're having. Regret... loss...

Instead of blaming the game, maybe try enjoying that you've been given the chance to do it at all.
Raelic Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:26pm 
Originally posted by Leander.quest:
PS There will not be other playthroughs with different classes or alignments. I'm always like in real life ... so most decisions would be the same. Siding with the goblins who kill, steal, betray etc.? No way. :)
There aren't alignments either.
wendigo211 Oct 20, 2023 @ 10:19pm 
Originally posted by Gracey Face:
Originally posted by wendigo211:
If you don't want to live with the consequences, save games exist for a reason.

It's not about living with the consequences though.

You see a stupid NPC who is not capable of doing even the most basic thing (despite supposedly being a high level cleric). You think to yourself "She deserves to die, I'll let her get KOed and just keep her death counter in check". Then when she gets KOed the fight just ends because your characters decide to sit there and do nothing while the guy carries her off.

It's a set of consequences that are too stupid and contradictory to the established rules that it is impossible to predict.

When has there ever been an RPG a videogame where AI controlled NPCs were smart and capable? Escort/Guard missions/quests have always been an excercise in trying to keep a suicidal toddler alive in a minefield. I can't think of a single game I've played where this wasn't the case.

I'll agree the attack comes without warning (although it is an ambush) and if you don't have some high initiative/alert characters it's possible for Isobel to get knocked out and taken away without a chance to act. However, I don't think the consequences are too severe for failing to protect her. Nor do I feel that taking Power Word:Reload into account when designing a game is bad design. Give the players a challenge and let them refine their actions over several iterations until they succeed. It's how you train an AI, so why not use it to train your players to use more of the tools at their disposal (like CC, the arcane lock spell, etc.)?
Last edited by wendigo211; Oct 20, 2023 @ 10:27pm
Humpenstilzchen Oct 20, 2023 @ 10:43pm 
Sometimes you really should use the save and reload function to your advantage or deal with the consequences.

And I disagree with it being bad gamedesign. It´s infact very good gamedesign. The fact that there are risks and the option to fail with consequences raises the tension and makes for a more interesting rpg experience.

Games that hold your hand too tightly like Bethesda games for example where you simply can´t fail at all are bland and boring.

Last edited by Humpenstilzchen; Oct 21, 2023 @ 4:42am
Gracey Face Oct 20, 2023 @ 10:57pm 
Originally posted by wendigo211:
When has there ever been an RPG a videogame where AI controlled NPCs were smart and capable? Escort/Guard missions/quests have always been an excercise in trying to keep a suicidal toddler alive in a minefield. I can't think of a single game I've played where this wasn't the case.

I'll agree the attack comes without warning (although it is an ambush) and if you don't have some high initiative/alert characters it's possible for Isobel to get knocked out and taken away without a chance to act. However, I don't think the consequences are too severe for failing to protect her. Nor do I feel that taking Power Word:Reload into account when designing a game is bad design. Give the players a challenge and let them refine their actions over several iterations until they succeed. It's how you train an AI, so why not use it to train your players to use more of the tools at their disposal (like CC, the arcane lock spell, etc.)?



The attack coming without warning is wierd but within the realms of possibility. It is the way the combat just ends when she gets knocked out. There's legitimately rules for this. Either he should have to grapple her and then continually take grapple checks while only being able to move her at half speed (so ~15 feet). Or he should have to KO her, then use a free action to pick her up, then move his speed or double his speed, then you should be able to take dex/str checks against him to get her out of his hands or just wail on him to down him.

The absolute 100% thing that shouldn't happen is for your characters to stand there as he carries her off.
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Date Posted: Oct 20, 2023 @ 7:03pm
Posts: 262