Moonrise prisoners all gone after going through Temple first

[xShapelessx]

Literally what the ♥♥♥♥

[Rumar]

All of these problems in flow would be solved if there was a day/night cycle. It could be you have 7 days to save the prisoners. At least that way you would know what the hard limit is and you could approach quests in any order as long as you were good at managing your resources.

[Acronen]

I thought it was pretty clear to be honest, and consistent. Act 1, I was about to move on to the Mountain Pass, since I was there with Lae'zel and all and that big old warning popped up. Taught me that "Hey, some things will progress the story, finish anything else here you want to do first." So I turned around.

Going to the Shadowfell had the same effect, I turned around.

There is a legitimate complaint with it though, in that some of the side quests were very unclear. I wasted a decent chunk of time looking everywhere for Mol and Zevlor, checking all over the map just in case. They were listed as side quests that seemed like they'd need to be completed before entering the Shadowfell, but ultimately couldn't be progressed til after.

[ShockedHearts]

Publicado originalmente por Rumar:

All of these problems in flow would be solved if there was a day/night cycle. It could be you have 7 days to save the prisoners. At least that way you would know what the hard limit is and you could approach quests in any order as long as you were good at managing your resources.

some quests do have a time gate.

you can only sleep so many days before so and so happens.

I quite like the current system but I think it can be done better, as well make resources harder to get. i have waaaaay too many camp supplies there really is no reason to even have it. casually looting* ends up with 800 days of camp supplies before act 1 is over

[ShockedHearts]

Publicado originalmente por Acronen:

I thought it was pretty clear to be honest, and consistent. Act 1, I was about to move on to the Mountain Pass, since I was there with Lae'zel and all and that big old warning popped up. Taught me that "Hey, some things will progress the story, finish anything else here you want to do first." So I turned around.

Going to the Shadowfell had the same effect, I turned around.

There is a legitimate complaint with it though, in that some of the side quests were very unclear. I wasted a decent chunk of time looking everywhere for Mol and Zevlor, checking all over the map just in case. They were listed as side quests that seemed like they'd need to be completed before entering the Shadowfell, but ultimately couldn't be progressed til after.

yeah THIS is a real criticsim.

i hda to reload because i failed blood of lathandor just because i forgot a single door in the creche

[Grumpy]

Publicado originalmente por ShockedHearts:

Publicado originalmente por Rumar:

All of these problems in flow would be solved if there was a day/night cycle. It could be you have 7 days to save the prisoners. At least that way you would know what the hard limit is and you could approach quests in any order as long as you were good at managing your resources.

some quests do have a time gate.

you can only sleep so many days before so and so happens.

I quite like the current system but I think it can be done better, as well make resources harder to get. i have waaaaay too many camp supplies there really is no reason to even have it. casually looting* ends up with 800 days of camp supplies before act 1 is over

I can bet my ding dong that some people would complain about that too.

[Goilveig]

Publicado originalmente por Dervish:

Literally tells you - learn to read

It tells you some quests will be impacted, doesn't give you a good hint which ones.

It was confusing because talking with Balthazar at the beginning of the area made it sound like doing the Nightsong bit was going to help us infiltrate the tower, so I thought this was supposed to be done first.

You even get a quest update for Infiltrate the Moonrise Towers that states "We found Balthazar in the temple below the Thorm Mausoleum. He asked us to help him find the relic for Ketheric."

Now, that update makes sense if you have already been to Moonrise Towers and were tasked with helping Balthazar, but if you happen to find the mausoleum first, then the journal updates make it sound like this area is how you are supposed to get into the tower in the first place.

[Grumpy]

Publicado originalmente por Goilveig:

Publicado originalmente por Dervish:

Literally tells you - learn to read

It tells you some quests will be impacted, doesn't give you a good hint which ones.

It was confusing because talking with Balthazar at the beginning of the area made it sound like doing the Nightsong bit was going to help us infiltrate the tower, so I thought this was supposed to be done first.

You even get a quest update for Infiltrate the Moonrise Towers that states "We found Balthazar in the temple below the Thorm Mausoleum. He asked us to help him find the relic for Ketheric."

Now, that update makes sense if you have already been to Moonrise Towers and were tasked with helping Balthazar, but if you happen to find the mausoleum first, then the journal updates make it sound like this area is how you are supposed to get into the tower in the first place.

So you saw that you could lose some sidequests and you still pushed further? Not a true completionist i see.

[Goilveig]

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

So you saw that you could lose some sidequests and you still pushed further? Not a true completionist i see.

No, because I had finished every side quest except those related to Moonrise Towers, and the Balthazar journal update made it sound like this was the next step in infiltrating the towers. I figured the warning was in regards to quests I'd already finished.

[Grumpy]

Publicado originalmente por Goilveig:

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

So you saw that you could lose some sidequests and you still pushed further? Not a true completionist i see.

No, because I had finished every side quest except those related to Moonrise Towers, and the Balthazar journal update made it sound like this was the next step in infiltrating the towers. I figured the warning was because of quests I'd already finished.

So you didn't check. Not a true completionist ! Completionist = paranoid.

[ShockedHearts]

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

Publicado originalmente por Goilveig:

No, because I had finished every side quest except those related to Moonrise Towers, and the Balthazar journal update made it sound like this was the next step in infiltrating the towers. I figured the warning was because of quests I'd already finished.

So you didn't check. Not a true completionist ! Completionist = paranoid.

yeah its common sense to cover every ounce of the map before moving forward in an rpg. if you dont do that then in reality you didnt actually want to find everything. at that point you are just complaining for the game not handing you the content without you having to actually play the game to do it.

[I Denizen I]

Publicado originalmente por Quillithe:

Publicado originalmente por I Denizen I:

Sorry I'm with the OP,

You get told categorically that Kethric is unkillable and you need to go find out how to remove it before you confront him, its counter intuitive to think the players are going to go to his stronghold, you know the place full of tadpole'd bad guys...who like us can share our minds, and we've by now (Assuming we are doing a non evil playthrough) killed at least 5 of his bad guys and wiped out his forces in the wilds, the underdark and defeated the Githyanki, oh and murdered the Drider.

I reckon by now they have a good idea, we are not team absolute, its crazy to me we are not KoS in that entire area, but no you can walk in, trade, talk to Kethric if you want, go plunder the dungeon and kill everyone down there and still they aren't aggro upstairs, which is ridiculous.

So no, a pop up at the pool does not instantly make you think, I better go to Kethric's stronghold, because it cannopt surely mean its going to advance that quest??? you know the one logically you are doing right now IS THE PRECURSOR to going to Kethric.

I was mad AF myself, because logically the correct progression is, you adventure, you learn information, you learn about prisoners, you learn how to remove his invulnerability, you remove his invulnerability, you go scout his stronghold, find the prisoners, release the prisoners, go let everyone else know its time to come kick his ass.

Not here though.

The game tells you to go to Moonrise Tower repeatedly. It's the main objective of the Act, the whole point is that you're sneaking in because they think you're one of them.

And then there's a popup that tells you it'll progress quests, I'd think you'd at least save first and notice it failing quests in your quest log.

You go into the area, you blag your way into getting some protection on your way to the tower, you get attacked by good guys and decide to help them murder some more absolute cultists, they direct you to the inn, at the inn you nearly get killed for having a tadpole, then you get told the boss in moonrise towers is literally unkillable, aka don't go there because you will not able to kill him.

DON'T GO TILL YOU WORK OUT HOW TO KILL HIM, that is the entire progression in the first section of the area.

I've been playing actual pen and paper RPG's since the 80's, I've played pretty much every single game that's ever been a comptuer game rpg.

You never EVER go into the enemy stronghold where the big bad is, when you've been murder hobo'ing his forces since the game start, until you have worked out how to kill him.

That's RPG 101, some ridiculous pop up telling you "some quests will advance" while you are still in the process of trying to find and remove the very thing stopping you going to face the bad guy, is bad writing, its bad flow, its bad planning and it makes no sense.

It's logical to you is it, every part of the game to date, you talk to one person with a tadpole you mind share, you literally mind meld with them, so lets go to the area where its tadpole central and full of hostiles and hope we don't talk to a single NPC with a tadpole, or the jig is up.

There is no reason, none that you would risk it, unless you got specifically told something like "We're worried that the dungeon is full of prisoners, and they might kill them all if we attack the place frontally." now the player knows he has to decide whether to risk getting caught sneaking about by the tadpole'd bad guys to free prisoners, or whether to focus on removing Kethrics invulnerability and forget about the prisoners.

Thats how you write it to give players agency.

[ShockedHearts]

Publicado originalmente por I Denizen I:

Publicado originalmente por Quillithe:

The game tells you to go to Moonrise Tower repeatedly. It's the main objective of the Act, the whole point is that you're sneaking in because they think you're one of them.

And then there's a popup that tells you it'll progress quests, I'd think you'd at least save first and notice it failing quests in your quest log.

You go into the area, you blag your way into getting some protection on your way to the tower, you get attacked by good guys and decide to help them murder some more absolute cultists, they direct you to the inn, at the inn you nearly get killed for having a tadpole, then you get told the boss in moonrise towers is literally unkillable, aka don't go there because you will not able to kill him.

DON'T GO TILL YOU WORK OUT HOW TO KILL HIM, that is the entire progression in the first section of the area.

I've been playing actual pen and paper RPG's since the 80's, I've played pretty much every single game that's ever been a comptuer game rpg.

You never EVER go into the enemy stronghold where the big bad is, when you've been murder hobo'ing his forces since the game start, until you have worked out how to kill him.

That's RPG 101, some ridiculous pop up telling you "some quests will advance" while you are still in the process of trying to find and remove the very thing stopping you going to face the bad guy, is bad writing, its bad flow, its bad planning and it makes no sense.

It's logical to you is it, every part of the game to date, you talk to one person with a tadpole you mind share, you literally mind meld with them, so lets go to the area where its tadpole central and full of hostiles and hope we don't talk to a single NPC with a tadpole, or the jig is up.

There is no reason, none that you would risk it, unless you got specifically told something like "We're worried that the dungeon is full of prisoners, and they might kill them all if we attack the place frontally." now the player knows he has to decide whether to risk getting caught sneaking about by the tadpole'd bad guys to free prisoners, or whether to focus on removing Kethrics invulnerability and forget about the prisoners.

Thats how you write it to give players agency.

I actually got a full escort to the towers snuck in with charisma as a "friendly" true soul and looted and explored the entire place and traded with the merchant guild people there.

when i was done i left and joined people in last light inn after exploring around the wilds. and proceeded to do everything around the area before ambushing the tower with my allies surprising everyone there who though i was actually a cultist myself.

you can do a lot in this game.

[Quillithe]

Publicado originalmente por I Denizen I:

Publicado originalmente por Quillithe:

The game tells you to go to Moonrise Tower repeatedly. It's the main objective of the Act, the whole point is that you're sneaking in because they think you're one of them.

And then there's a popup that tells you it'll progress quests, I'd think you'd at least save first and notice it failing quests in your quest log.

You go into the area, you blag your way into getting some protection on your way to the tower, you get attacked by good guys and decide to help them murder some more absolute cultists, they direct you to the inn, at the inn you nearly get killed for having a tadpole, then you get told the boss in moonrise towers is literally unkillable, aka don't go there because you will not able to kill him.

DON'T GO TILL YOU WORK OUT HOW TO KILL HIM, that is the entire progression in the first section of the area.

Nope, if there are prisoners Jaheira explicitly tells you to sneak into the tower pretending to be a cultist to free the prisoners and figure out what's making him unkillable.

You're explicitly told to go there, they really can't make it any more direct.

Heck, your quest log if you go to the inn includes a quest titled "Infiltrate Moonrise Towers" with the description "Jaheira, the Harpers' leader, told us to go to Moonrise Towers and infiltrate the ranks of the cult of the Absolute.

If you read that and conclude that the game isn't telling you to infiltrate Moonrise Towers, I dunno man.

EDIT: I'd also note that you don't randomly mind meld with people with tadpoles and they DO think you're a follower of the absolute - they shove a dying one in Act 1 just to make sure this is clear. Not to mention that you also find out if you don't just attack the goblin camp outright.

[Goilveig]

Publicado originalmente por Quillithe:

Heck, your quest log if you go to the inn includes a quest titled "Infiltrate Moonrise Towers" with the description "Jaheira, the Harpers' leader, told us to go to Moonrise Towers and infiltrate the ranks of the cult of the Absolute.

If you read that and conclude that the game isn't telling you to infiltrate Moonrise Towers, I dunno man.

Yes, but if you do that and then discover the temple of Shar, your quest log will read:

"Jaheira, the Harpers' leader, told us to go to Moonrise Towers and infiltrate the ranks of the cult of the Absolute."

Followed by

"We found Balthazar in the temple below the Thorm Mausoleum. He asked us to help him find the relic for Ketheric."

When you see that, it makes it sound like helping Balthazar is HOW you accomplish the infiltration that Jaheira mentioned. I figured we had to do this, and we'd later get a chance to double-cross Kethric after we got an audience with him.

[Grumpy]

Publicado originalmente por Goilveig:

Publicado originalmente por Quillithe:

Heck, your quest log if you go to the inn includes a quest titled "Infiltrate Moonrise Towers" with the description "Jaheira, the Harpers' leader, told us to go to Moonrise Towers and infiltrate the ranks of the cult of the Absolute.

If you read that and conclude that the game isn't telling you to infiltrate Moonrise Towers, I dunno man.

Yes, but if you do that and then discover the temple of Shar, your quest log will read:

"Jaheira, the Harpers' leader, told us to go to Moonrise Towers and infiltrate the ranks of the cult of the Absolute."

Followed by

"We found Balthazar in the temple below the Thorm Mausoleum. He asked us to help him find the relic for Ketheric."

When you see that, it makes it sound like helping Balthazar is HOW you accomplish the infiltration that Jaheira mentioned. I figured we had to do this, and we'd later get a chance to double-cross Kethric after we got an audience with him.

At some point, you need to use your brain cells too.
It's still a bunch of 1 and 0, the program is not aware of your thinking you just raised a flag so it shows up. But you still didn't go to Moonrise Towers like Jaheira told you to, it means you skipped a step with a location, as the human you have to check if the game has content for you there.