(spoilers) There is something Genuinely Creepy about the Isobel Dame Aylin Romance

[Kyzzer]

I've been doing my second play through of BG3 recently and am for the first time getting the lore on Dame Aylin and Isobel (on my first play through I let Isobel get kidnapped to keep my absolute cultist cover, figuring I could rescue her later and then Dame Aylin just dissipated which I assume was a glitch).

At first I was all "Dawww, reuinited lovers brought back after all this time and trepidation" and I actually LoL'ed when the Dame Aylin was all like "we'll tall later, Isobel and I need to ♥♥♥♥" and Isobel got all shy. But then after talking to Isobel about her past it almost sounds like Dame Aylin was grooming her a bit. Like she was a young girl in a rural area, raised to worship Selune, then the daughter of her god strolls by and seduces her. Its not clear how old Isobel is, but Dame Alyin is clearly much much older (being immortal and all). Then you get their dynamic later where Isobel clearly still loves (or at least has sympathy for) her father despite what he did and Dame Alyin is all "haaa! did you see how I caved your dad's skull in!"

I can't quite put my finger on it but it just feels off now that I have all the back story...

I didn't put much thought into this post aside from spell checking it... curious if anyone else had this thought.

[Izlude]

Personally I kill Isobel and then sell Aylin to some wizard. I dont tolerate dmpcs trying to hog the spotlight.

[Alex-]

There's certainly implications that Isobel's attraction to Aylin isn't entirely natural, and Ketheric himself believed that Aylin was enchanting her for some malicious reason, but there's nothing really conclusive. It's equally likely that Isobel was just starstruck from meeting one of Selune's children, and her infatuation turned into genuine affection and love later on.

Personally, for me, the latter interpretation seems more likely. Ketheric is pretty explicitly portrayed as a broken man whose fears and doubts were exploited to make him serve Shar and later Myrkul. Aylin and Isobel's relationship is entirely healthy. They love and support each other, and despite Aylin having a tendency to experience anger and hatred very deeply, she has a pretty big soft spot for Isobel.

[Mizu]

The game gives us no reason to think Isobel was a minor when she first met Aylin, I have no idea where you are getting groomer vibes.

[Mizu]

Originally posted by Alex ✓:

There's certainly implications that Isobel's attraction to Aylin isn't entirely natural, and Ketheric himself believed that Aylin was enchanting her for some malicious reason, but there's nothing really conclusive. It's equally likely that Isobel was just starstruck from meeting one of Selune's children, and her infatuation turned into genuine affection and love later on.

Personally, for me, the latter interpretation seems more likely. Ketheric is pretty explicitly portrayed as a broken man whose fears and doubts were exploited to make him serve Shar and later Myrkul. Aylin and Isobel's relationship is entirely healthy. They love and support each other, and despite Aylin having a tendency to experience anger and hatred very deeply, she has a pretty big soft spot for Isobel.

Wait, what, he did? I never found any way to get the guy to talk about his feelings on the matter of his daughter dating Selune's daughter. Or is it in some note you can find somewhere?

[Kyzzer]

Originally posted by Alex ✓:

There's certainly implications that Isobel's attraction to Aylin isn't entirely natural, and Ketheric himself believed that Aylin was enchanting her for some malicious reason, but there's nothing really conclusive. It's equally likely that Isobel was just starstruck from meeting one of Selune's children, and her infatuation turned into genuine affection and love later on.

Personally, for me, the latter interpretation seems more likely. Ketheric is pretty explicitly portrayed as a broken man whose fears and doubts were exploited to make him serve Shar and later Myrkul. Aylin and Isobel's relationship is entirely healthy. They love and support each other, and despite Aylin having a tendency to experience anger and hatred very deeply, she has a pretty big soft spot for Isobel.

This is kind of what I was going back and forth on: was Isobel attracted to Aylin genuinely or was it a Zeus seduction sort of affair? I'm getting into act 3 with them now so I don't have all the details yet, but you make a good point.

[Kyzzer]

Originally posted by Mizu:

The game gives us no reason to think Isobel was a minor when she first met Aylin, I have no idea where you are getting groomer vibes.

Ahh yes cause there's nothing wrong with a 500 yr/old seducing an 18 yr/old

[Kyzzer]

Originally posted by Mizu:

Originally posted by Alex ✓:

There's certainly implications that Isobel's attraction to Aylin isn't entirely natural, and Ketheric himself believed that Aylin was enchanting her for some malicious reason, but there's nothing really conclusive. It's equally likely that Isobel was just starstruck from meeting one of Selune's children, and her infatuation turned into genuine affection and love later on.

Personally, for me, the latter interpretation seems more likely. Ketheric is pretty explicitly portrayed as a broken man whose fears and doubts were exploited to make him serve Shar and later Myrkul. Aylin and Isobel's relationship is entirely healthy. They love and support each other, and despite Aylin having a tendency to experience anger and hatred very deeply, she has a pretty big soft spot for Isobel.

Wait, what, he did? I never found any way to get the guy to talk about his feelings on the matter of his daughter dating Selune's daughter. Or is it in some note you can find somewhere?

I think there are some lore books that give additional dialogue. I was able to essentially talk Ketharic down because I found out about his past (you still have to fight him as the spawn), but it paints him in a much more sympathetic light

[Izlude]

Originally posted by Mizu:

The game gives us no reason to think Isobel was a minor when she first met Aylin, I have no idea where you are getting groomer vibes.

Personally I find Twilight creepy because Edward is like a hundred years old so him dating an 18 year old is just wrong. This age gap is even worse.

[Alex-]

Originally posted by Mizu:

Wait, what, he did? I never found any way to get the guy to talk about his feelings on the matter of his daughter dating Selune's daughter. Or is it in some note you can find somewhere?

There are bunch of journals and letters from Ketheric scattered throughout Moonrise Towers and the Thorm mausoleum. You get a pretty good idea of who he is and where he's coming from, as well as the particularly juicy tidbit that Raphael is the one who defeated him back when he was Chosen of Shar. Act 2 has some of the most interesting books and letters when it comes to the game's lore, so it's definitely worth doing a run through of that act where you just read as much as possible.

[Alex-]

Originally posted by Kyzzer:

Ahh yes cause there's nothing wrong with a 500 yr/old seducing an 18 yr/old

We don't know Isobel's age at the time, and given that Shadowheart looks like she does despite being 40 years old, and Ketheric himself is quite elderly, it's entirely possible that Isobel was in her 30's when she met Aylin. It's really unlikely that she was a teenager at least, given what we know of the timeline.

[Kyzzer]

Originally posted by Alex ✓:

Originally posted by Kyzzer:

Ahh yes cause there's nothing wrong with a 500 yr/old seducing an 18 yr/old

We don't know Isobel's age at the time, and given that Shadowheart looks like she does despite being 40 years old, and Ketheric himself is quite elderly, it's entirely possible that Isobel was in her 30's when she met Aylin. It's really unlikely that she was a teenager at least, given what we know of the timeline.

Perfectly fair, I was just making a point.

Also Shadoheart is supposed to be 40? She barely looks above 20 even with the default skin.

[Kazeck]

Originally posted by Kyzzer:

Originally posted by Alex ✓:

We don't know Isobel's age at the time, and given that Shadowheart looks like she does despite being 40 years old, and Ketheric himself is quite elderly, it's entirely possible that Isobel was in her 30's when she met Aylin. It's really unlikely that she was a teenager at least, given what we know of the timeline.

Perfectly fair, I was just making a point.

Also Shadoheart is supposed to be 40? She barely looks above 20 even with the default skin.

She's an elf, of course she looks barely 20. Half Elves age around half as fast as humans, Elves...even slower. a 40 year old elf was considered a literal child in earlier editions.

[Oddball]

How many stories and characters from Greek/Roman mythology involve being the offspring of some god seducing mortals... and those gods are all like millions of years old. So yeah, it's weird, but really normal in the grand scheme of things lol.

[Kazeck]

Originally posted by Philogosten:

Originally posted by Mizu:

The game gives us no reason to think Isobel was a minor when she first met Aylin, I have no idea where you are getting groomer vibes.

Personally I find Twilight creepy because Edward is like a hundred years old so him dating an 18 year old is just wrong. This age gap is even worse.

I personally think that we set the age at 18 as a society, after that being judgemental is sort of wrong too, since at what point is someone considered an adult?

In a world in which people often fight for their lives before they're 14, and (going by historical examples) many will be married by then too, the reality is that calling it 'grooming' in a modern sense isn't really correct.

We can't be a society that believes in freedom of love and the ability to live as you wish, then also judge things that are perfectly legal, and ethically acceptable, simply because we find it distasteful.

[Kyzzer]

Originally posted by Kazeck:

Originally posted by Kyzzer:

Perfectly fair, I was just making a point.

Also Shadoheart is supposed to be 40? She barely looks above 20 even with the default skin.

She's an elf, of course she looks barely 20. Half Elves age around half as fast as humans, Elves...even slower. a 40 year old elf was considered a literal child in earlier editions.

Right I'm a moron, I forgot she was a half elf. I was thinking on human standards XD