Ability points - what am i missing?

[Abyssian]

I was disappointed to see that upon lvl up i was not offered to allocate another ability point on lvl 4 or 5 as i remember from tabletop game. Every 4 lvl you should have one point. Even pcgamer site explained it that upon lvl 4 characters get the first point, in BG3. So why i didn't see the option?

[Glyph]

You get your asi at 4 8 and 12 just like in tabletop. This game it's the first option on the feat list.

[Canadian Ninja]

It's in the feats list, Ability Score Improvement (ASI)

[Helhammer]

You can choose two points in place of a feat, not in addition to. Some feats also include ability point bonuses. This matches the tabletop 5E rules.

[Amaranth]

You have to be level 4, 8 or 12 in a class, not the character level. If you are level 4, but multiclassed, you will not have it until one class reaches 4.

[Dank Sidious]

Being able to select 1 ability point at level up at certain levels is 3E rules.
5E has overly streamlined this and now you have to select between a feat or ability scores.

[Abyssian]

Originally posted by Dank Sidious:

Being able to select 1 ability point at level up at certain levels is 3E rules.
5E has overly streamlined this and now you have to select between a feat or ability scores.

Oh? So i choose either feat or ability point? Interesting. But that is a downgrade, as 3e (and Pathfinder) will give you point AND feat.

[id795078477]

Originally posted by Ravenlast:

Originally posted by Dank Sidious:

Being able to select 1 ability point at level up at certain levels is 3E rules.
5E has overly streamlined this and now you have to select between a feat or ability scores.

Oh? So i choose either feat or ability point? Interesting. But that is a downgrade, as 3e (and Pathfinder) will give you point AND feat.

Yes. It's "streamlined experience" for you. But if we call things the proper names - it's "dumbing down" because Hasbros aimed for mobile device markets with the new editions so they had to make it as simple as they could.

Apart from that: BAB = gone, APR = gone, SR = gone, conceal = gone, DR = gone, DI = gone, alignment = gone and many other things. Skills are now "proficient" or "not", you can't simply choose and configure them, there are no skills requiring training etc etc. Weapons have all lost their identity as crit range and multiplier are gone.

Feats (at least in BG3) = 4-5 of them are good making everything else useless. Continuous spells suck a rabid donkey's scrotum because of the "concentration" meaning it's pointless to have 20 of them available as you'll always concentrate those 1-2 things.

If you like 3e - just forget about it to not spoil your own enjoyment here. It is what it is.

[amills1]

Originally posted by id795078477:

Yes. It's "streamlined experience" for you. But if we call things the proper names - it's "dumbing down" because Hasbros aimed for mobile device markets with the new editions so they had to make it as simple as they could.

They did? How so? There aren't many 5E games out there - this and Solasta being the main two. It isn't an entirely simple game either.

[Sima Marlin]

Originally posted by Ravenlast:

I was disappointed to see that upon lvl up i was not offered to allocate another ability point on lvl 4 or 5 as i remember from tabletop game. Every 4 lvl you should have one point. Even pcgamer site explained it that upon lvl 4 characters get the first point, in BG3. So why i didn't see the option?

Just remember what people mentioned above : It has to be four levels in a class, to qualify for feat or +2 attributes.

meaning 1 rogue 1 wizard 2 fighter as example ( total level 4) would NOT get attribute or feat, while 4 levels rogue would.

Also it's worth mentioning fighters get bit more attributes and feats than other classes.

Namely on level 4, 6, 8, 12 vs the usual 4, 8, 12

[Zackerie]

Originally posted by Ravenlast:

Originally posted by Dank Sidious:

Being able to select 1 ability point at level up at certain levels is 3E rules.
5E has overly streamlined this and now you have to select between a feat or ability scores.

Oh? So i choose either feat or ability point? Interesting. But that is a downgrade, as 3e (and Pathfinder) will give you point AND feat.

there are options that will allow you to spend a point on an ability and to get a feat as well. for example athlete gives you either +1 to str or dex plus a feat that lets you jump higher and uses less movement to get up from prone.

[id795078477]

Originally posted by amills1:

Originally posted by id795078477:

Yes. It's "streamlined experience" for you. But if we call things the proper names - it's "dumbing down" because Hasbros aimed for mobile device markets with the new editions so they had to make it as simple as they could.

They did? How so? There aren't many 5E games out there - this and Solasta being the main two. It isn't an entirely simple game either.

Well.. them wanting something and that something actually materializing are two different things. In the end nobody won. But wait till the hardcore fanboys will point out how 5e is so superior.

[Iso Koala]

Originally posted by Ravenlast:

Originally posted by Dank Sidious:

Being able to select 1 ability point at level up at certain levels is 3E rules.
5E has overly streamlined this and now you have to select between a feat or ability scores.

Oh? So i choose either feat or ability point? Interesting. But that is a downgrade, as 3e (and Pathfinder) will give you point AND feat.

Just get a class to lvl 4 and you will see. Dont start to compare to 3e or Pathfinder whatever, just play the game and allow the game have its rules. The lvl 4 feats are pretty neat, and you wont be disappointed.

[gurugeorge]

Originally posted by Ravenlast:

Originally posted by Dank Sidious:

Being able to select 1 ability point at level up at certain levels is 3E rules.
5E has overly streamlined this and now you have to select between a feat or ability scores.

Oh? So i choose either feat or ability point? Interesting. But that is a downgrade, as 3e (and Pathfinder) will give you point AND feat.

Yeah 5e is very streamlined - I don't think for any sinister reasons, but just because they re-thought things to make tabletop sessions go smoother with less minor dice-rolling.

I dunno, in some ways I quite like it, the streamlining is quite well thought-out; but in other ways I do miss the fiddly simulationist complexity of 3e/PF. It meant that there was usually something to look forward to at every level up that you could fiddle with and tweak, whereas a lot of level-ups in 5e for most classes in 5e are like cleric level ups were in the older systems - with dead levels.

I think the real problem may be that while 5e may indeed be better for tabletop, for a CRPG where you really need those little "rewards" at level up, and the computer does calculations for you, it's a bit "dry." But as Solasta showed (which ironically stuck much more closely to the RAW than Larian have done) it can work, but it make the game feel quite small-scale.

Larian went the other way to compensate - they kind of bypassed a lot of the RAW with their idea of "fun." Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Ideally, out there in possibility space, there's a system that builds up from the streamlined foundation of 5e and reintroduces some of the old 3e/PF simulationist complexity purely for CRPGs, but without being quite as fiddly as 3e/PF are, and with the addition of a few of the Larian "fun" elements. One can dream. Maybe modders will do it some day.

[TrueWarlord真の武]

Originally posted by Ravenlast:

Originally posted by Dank Sidious:

Being able to select 1 ability point at level up at certain levels is 3E rules.
5E has overly streamlined this and now you have to select between a feat or ability scores.

Oh? So i choose either feat or ability point? Interesting. But that is a downgrade, as 3e (and Pathfinder) will give you point AND feat.

Fair, but feats are way more powerfull in 5e, while in Pathfinder you need 3 feats to do "something".
In 5e there is a single feat called "Great Weapon Master", it gives you -5 atk but +10 on damage, and also extra attack on crits or when you reduce a creature to 0 hp... Now on pathfinder you pick weapon focus, power attack, cleave LOL...

5e is just better IMO, but I understand it as a matter of tastes, and many people have terrible tastes. xD

[Dank Sidious]

Originally posted by TrueWarlord真の武:

Originally posted by Ravenlast:

Oh? So i choose either feat or ability point? Interesting. But that is a downgrade, as 3e (and Pathfinder) will give you point AND feat.

Fair, but feats are way more powerfull in 5e, while in Pathfinder you need 3 feats to do "something".
In 5e there is a single feat called "Great Weapon Master", it gives you -5 atk but +10 on damage, and also extra attack on crits or when you reduce a creature to 0 hp... Now on pathfinder you pick weapon focus, power attack, cleave LOL...

5e is just better IMO, but I understand it as a matter of tastes, and many people have terrible tastes. xD

Are the feats really that much more powerful?