Shove, please rebalance

[Teemo]

Dear Larian, can you please make shove a standard action rather than a bonus action. It's way too powerful as is with the way you've built your levels. If it is a bonus action in DnD 5th Ed, that's only because the level design in the table top is nowhere near what you've built in BG3. The player should be giving something up to get this benefit. Some of the uses are especially egregious too, such as being able to shove a boss into a spider pit and take them out of the fight for 5-6 rounds at the small cost of a bonus action.

[Farsha]

Shove is attack action in DnD 5e not bonus action.
By the rules you can use 1 of your attacks to shove.

It's home-brew rule by Larian and they should change it.
I just ignore it and use thunderwave, pushing attack etc... instead.

[Teemo]

Originally posted by Farsha:

Shove is attack action in DnD 5e not bonus action.
By the rules you can use 1 of your attacks to shove.

It's home-brew rule by Larian and they should change it.
I just ignore it and use thunderwave, pushing attack etc... instead.

I think what I'm going to do is just use it as if it's a standard action, so not use both shove and another standard action on my guy on the same turn. The problem I have is that it's obviously intended to be available to use and it's built around Str, which I am currently doing a Barb run through. So I want to use it, but I feel dirty every time I click on it.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

The harshest part of it as a bonus action isnt us using it honestly lol its the NPCs when they use it on you it feels SOOO bad when you have full HP walked into someone have a nice chat then they turn on you no matter what get a better roll and wipe a character from an insane push, and some of those Dawrfs have crazy Str down in the underdark you might think you are safe but they will yeet you half a mile into the ether lol

[IgnatiusJ.Reilly]

Frankly, given the many 'instant death' holes, the ridiculous shove distance, and loads of verticality in the game, it's just way over the top for a bonus action with no real resource cost. But, it's been this way for a long time. I don't even want to say that 'mods will fix it', but I guess they will eventually, though they have their own drawbacks.

[Ronin Gamer]

Considering I almost never shove at all not really sure why it matters. I mean I get it you probably have a multiple pages long discussion document to explain why it is, but honestly if you don't like a mechanic or it's not all that big of a deal, just play without it. What I usually do.
Hell I constantly forget I can dip weapons to get extra elemental damage, I simply just fight with the weapons I have.

[BeautifulFlowerField]

It seems a bit too strong to me, for a full action I think it's almost okay but as a bonus action it should be much weaker and the STR scaling should be a bit harsher. 10 STR shove is too good. Give enemies a saving throw against it too?

[mods twist his balls]

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Considering I almost never shove at all not really sure why it matters. I mean I get it you probably have a multiple pages long discussion document to explain why it is, but honestly if you don't like a mechanic or it's not all that big of a deal, just play without it. What I usually do.
Hell I constantly forget I can dip weapons to get extra elemental damage, I simply just fight with the weapons I have.

I'm fine with not shoving people, the AI however loves doing it, tiny goblins shouldn't be able to one shot people with a bonus action

[Lord Adorable]

Originally posted by Tenshinhan strongest human:

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Considering I almost never shove at all not really sure why it matters. I mean I get it you probably have a multiple pages long discussion document to explain why it is, but honestly if you don't like a mechanic or it's not all that big of a deal, just play without it. What I usually do.
Hell I constantly forget I can dip weapons to get extra elemental damage, I simply just fight with the weapons I have.

I'm fine with not shoving people, the AI however loves doing it, tiny goblins shouldn't be able to one shot people with a bonus action

Technically in those cases it's the gravity that kills you, hehehe.
But yeah, shove being a bonus action is a bit of a wild card that enemies can sometimes pull and I don't quite know what to think of it.

[Teemo]

The true problem with shove is that it's not shove, it's throw 50', and if that 50' happens to be off a cliff, then you win. If all shove did was give a reflex DC to avoid being knocked prone based on a difference in STR, this whole issue would also go away. But Larian built a very very vertical world with a bonus action that lets you 1 shot just about anything. It's just immersion breaking and has no reason to be in the game at all, much less as a bonus action.

[Ronin Gamer]

Originally posted by Tenshinhan strongest human:

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Considering I almost never shove at all not really sure why it matters. I mean I get it you probably have a multiple pages long discussion document to explain why it is, but honestly if you don't like a mechanic or it's not all that big of a deal, just play without it. What I usually do.
Hell I constantly forget I can dip weapons to get extra elemental damage, I simply just fight with the weapons I have.

I'm fine with not shoving people, the AI however loves doing it, tiny goblins shouldn't be able to one shot people with a bonus action

Once again, let the enemies do what they want and you do what you want, consider it a challenge run and that's your rule. I've barely ever shoved the entire EA and I've won all these fights one way or another.

[Teemo]

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Originally posted by Tenshinhan strongest human:

I'm fine with not shoving people, the AI however loves doing it, tiny goblins shouldn't be able to one shot people with a bonus action

Once again, let the enemies do what they want and you do what you want, consider it a challenge run and that's your rule. I've barely ever shoved the entire EA and I've won all these fights one way or another.

Yes, and you can also choose to make a run without using weapons, or a run without using spells, or whatever other ridiculous rules you want to make for fun. People do that all the time in these games after they beat it, or sometimes even on the first run through. This is a terrible argument against fixing something obviously imbalanced.

As a hyperbolic example, let's pretend Larian also decided that every time the fighter class attacked something, they always guaranteed killed it on the first attack. Sure, I could choose to not play a fighter, obviously I have that choice, but what if I want to play a fighter but I also want the fighter to not be game breaking imbalanced?

I don't want to have to choose not to use a feature of the game, I want all features of the game to not be game breaking imbalanced.

[BenRichards843]

I feel like it's cheating. That's how I kicked Bernard's tail by just shoving him out of the tower and rang attacking him. (They may have fixed this by now though.)

[IgnatiusJ.Reilly]

Originally posted by BenRichards843:

I feel like it's cheating. That's how I kicked Bernard's tail by just shoving him out of the tower and rang attacking him. (They may have fixed this by now though.)

No, a couple of months ago, Bernard himself shoved Astarion out the front-facing window in my last play-through. Astarion was not so lucky, he went splat on the front steps of the tower.

[Spoon498]

Originally posted by Teemo:

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Once again, let the enemies do what they want and you do what you want, consider it a challenge run and that's your rule. I've barely ever shoved the entire EA and I've won all these fights one way or another.

Yes, and you can also choose to make a run without using weapons, or a run without using spells, or whatever other ridiculous rules you want to make for fun. People do that all the time in these games after they beat it, or sometimes even on the first run through. This is a terrible argument against fixing something obviously imbalanced.

As a hyperbolic example, let's pretend Larian also decided that every time the fighter class attacked something, they always guaranteed killed it on the first attack. Sure, I could choose to not play a fighter, obviously I have that choice, but what if I want to play a fighter but I also want the fighter to not be game breaking imbalanced?

I don't want to have to choose not to use a feature of the game, I want all features of the game to not be game breaking imbalanced.

You should really ignore Ronin Gamer. He rarely has anything actually constructive to say. And acts as if his experience and approach to the game is somehow representative of everyone's. /disengage

[Spoon498]

I personally like shove. It's a little extra spice and gives the game a bit of its own uniqueness. I think if the levels weren't so interesting you'd probably never notice. Also if you think shove is op let me introduce you to my friend Thunderwave. ;)