Baldur's Gate 3

Baldur's Gate 3

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Steppenrazor Apr 19, 2023 @ 10:42pm
wizard love

why is it each dnd edition.. seems to have messed up wizards?

Wizards used to be these.. hidden masters.. who know of stuff and can "wiggle their fingers" and send a fire ball into their enemies..

now.. in modern gaming, dnd rules - by and large they are just subpar sorcerers or wana be warlocks?

their main advantage in PNP DND is they can learn every/any spell they want, and tend to be better at crafting in the long term. (which few ever really reach.....

but in such a scripted game... that is kind of useless..
i mean sure there may be what? 8+ lvl 1 mage spells.. but if 90% of my game play i only use 2 or 3 of them? (mage armor + magic missile)

why go with a wizard with less casts of my core spells per day? RP reasons? k. im for that.. but still think Wizards need some CRPG love..

if only to show they KNOW magic.. while sorcerers, warlocks and the like ARE magic.
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Showing 1-15 of 108 comments
Steppenrazor Apr 19, 2023 @ 10:51pm 
heck ive read/seen one can even get a +18 int item after about 2 hours or so in game?!?!

seems like a big F U to folks wanting to play a true wizard... i mean not only do other classes cast more.. but i can make a freaking barbarian who could be a more powerful wizard in just 1 level...
Last edited by Steppenrazor; Apr 19, 2023 @ 10:54pm
Marmottty Apr 19, 2023 @ 11:04pm 
Hi @Steppenrazor. I've read you on this post and i really suggest you invest yourself in DD5 rules. I know the rules by heart and, most of the statements that you are making are wrong.
Power spells and magic ND are balanced in DD5 where it wasn't like that in olds editions.
I'm leaving you this link here: https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Index:Rules
It might help you a lot with your struggle.
Also in your second post you are talking about putting the crown to a barbarian. That's not the brightest idea except if you go on a multiclass hybrid of course but the two classes really don't mix well.
Most of the abilities you are looking for are class feats and spells slots. So investing in another class is really a bad move (except if you want some fighter levels with a mage-fighter concept that would be great then). The crown is giving you 17 in intelligence which is not enough for your wizard, you need to get the higher you can (except if you do a tank mage abjurator / fighter. Then you can go with a lesser score).
Last edited by Marmottty; Apr 19, 2023 @ 11:05pm
Maitrepof Apr 19, 2023 @ 11:07pm 
i guess it's a troll, because wizard are probably at their most powerfull and fun to play in 5e
heighten spell without feat, empowered spell for most spell caster wizard included (fireball 8d6 instead of 5 at start), cantrip that actually do damage and scale, no save sleep.

I mean come on what do you want more :)
Last edited by Maitrepof; Apr 19, 2023 @ 11:10pm
Steppenrazor Apr 19, 2023 @ 11:31pm 
Originally posted by Marmottty:
Hi @Steppenrazor. I've read you on this post and i really suggest you invest yourself in DD5 rules. I know the rules by heart and, most of the statements that you are making are wrong.
Power spells and magic ND are balanced in DD5 where it wasn't like that in olds editions.
I'm leaving you this link here: https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Index:Rules
It might help you a lot with your struggle.
Also in your second post you are talking about putting the crown to a barbarian. That's not the brightest idea except if you go on a multiclass hybrid of course but the two classes really don't mix well.
Most of the abilities you are looking for are class feats and spells slots. So investing in another class is really a bad move (except if you want some fighter levels with a mage-fighter concept that would be great then). The crown is giving you 17 in intelligence which is not enough for your wizard, you need to get the higher you can (except if you do a tank mage abjurator / fighter. Then you can go with a lesser score).



I'm not worried about PNP dnd... the huge number of spells and over all versatility, active DM control.. compensates, enough its not a big issue.

my "problem" if you want to call it that.. my issue?

is with CRPGs of DND and their use of wizards. it always seems like the wizard is.. left out. the wizards versatility.. is kind of useless when you only ever really tend to use 2-3,4 what ever spells per level.
Marmottty Apr 19, 2023 @ 11:44pm 
Originally posted by Steppenrazor:
Originally posted by Marmottty:
Hi @Steppenrazor. I've read you on this post and i really suggest you invest yourself in DD5 rules. I know the rules by heart and, most of the statements that you are making are wrong.
Power spells and magic ND are balanced in DD5 where it wasn't like that in olds editions.
I'm leaving you this link here: https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Index:Rules
It might help you a lot with your struggle.
Also in your second post you are talking about putting the crown to a barbarian. That's not the brightest idea except if you go on a multiclass hybrid of course but the two classes really don't mix well.
Most of the abilities you are looking for are class feats and spells slots. So investing in another class is really a bad move (except if you want some fighter levels with a mage-fighter concept that would be great then). The crown is giving you 17 in intelligence which is not enough for your wizard, you need to get the higher you can (except if you do a tank mage abjurator / fighter. Then you can go with a lesser score).

I'm not worried about PNP dnd... the huge number of spells and over all versatility, active DM control.. compensates, enough its not a big issue.

my "problem" if you want to call it that.. my issue?

is with CRPGs of DND and their use of wizards. it always seems like the wizard is.. left out. the wizards versatility.. is kind of useless when you only ever really tend to use 2-3,4 what ever spells per level.
Hi again, i don't know what version you are refering to, but that's not dd5. Complain about the crown that gives you 17 in intelligence (which is not the best score for a mage) is wrong as you have an object to increase every stats in DD5. So there is at least as much complain that you can make with every other classes.
My boyfriend don't even multiclass his mage abjurator that he is building as a tank and have made our last tabletop game with a poor score of 14 (for a wizard) and the character was perfectly fine.
So really again: https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Index:Rules go there and come back, if you have questions the community will be happy to help you speeding up your comprehension of the rules.
What is important is that in DD5 high score is easy to get but class feat is what you are looking for in your build, feats that you can't get if you do not pick the wizard class.
Gaius Apr 19, 2023 @ 11:46pm 
Wizards always had a huge design flaw called Vancian Magic.

To younger people who seem to thing D&D came from ancient, magical, perfect times, this is not the case. It was always the most famous RPG, but a lot of other systems flourished and withered, and one of the main reasons people who actually like casters used to NOT love D&D is exactly the "prepared spell" system.

Pathfinder 1.0 (based on D&D 3.5) solves issue basically making casters with the spell slot system have better spell progression by 1 level compared to spontaneous casters. You can check that playing the Pathfinder games, from Owlcat.

D&D 5e tries to solve it by allowing Wizard to have a huge list of known spells and just a few memorized. Like in tabletop, you can learn every spell from the Wizard spell list this way, just press K and choose the option to do so.

Actually in BG3 being a wizard is a LOT easier than in tabletop, because you can switch ANY prepared spell out of combat without resting- possibly something they'll fix, but for now you can basically choose anything when you want, making the Wizard, well, what he should be, a swiss army knife of troublesolving.

When you reduce the game to combat only, yeah, Wizards are slightly inferior to sorcerers, but not to warlocks, who have a total of TWO spell slots. But IMHO the true issue is how the game evolved to have many, many CHA based classes, so actually not being one of them reduces your party composition possibilities, as well as viable multiclassing. INT is a bad main ability to have in D&D, wich is sad in it's own way, but that's another discussion.

Now, back to your complaint, even at lv 1 the Wizard has a lot of powerful tools. Sleep, Grease and Thunderwave are very often more lethal, considering you're in a party, than magic missiles, and mage armor if more often that not neglible unless you take Abjuration School at lv 2 - but if you see every situation as a DPT check, of course you'll only use one spell, the one with more damage.

Even if you go the "DPT test" mode, Wizards are possibly better than pure Warlocks at lv 5. While spamming 2 fully upgraded Eldritcht Blast keeps Warlocks going "out of fuel", you can't compare it to 3 lv2 spell slots + 4 lv 1 spell slots unless the encounters are dragging forever, even considering both spent their Lv3 slots with 2 fireballs already.
Steppenrazor Apr 19, 2023 @ 11:49pm 
please note - while i first remarked about DND in general. (largely as i do feel they have degraded wizards over all. more in RP sense, one has to follow some special tradition to really stand out. - this form a someone who played a


my main point is with COMPUTER RPGs - and that as these new "mage" type classes have been added they - distract? reduce? the Wizard class.
Steppenrazor Apr 20, 2023 @ 12:05am 
Originally posted by Gaius:

But IMHO the true issue is how the game evolved to have many, many CHA based classes, so actually not being one of them reduces your party composition possibilities, as well as viable multiclassing. INT is a bad main ability to have in D&D, wich is sad in it's own way, but that's another discussion.

idk.. you seem to have summed up my "issue" with CRPGs/DND in general..
INT its largely become a dump stat for well - everyone except Wizards. and well - you're only likely to have a few INT checks the whole game. ( and in this case a game that apparently gives you an item that sets you to 18 int! with in a couple of hours?!?!

sure some might take a few points.. but heck - in my above post of a Barbarian/Wizard was kind of mocked. (fun RP wise.. min/max not so much. but he did survive the campaign! - Kal U'Tel the 1/2 orc lvl 1/7 Barbarian/Wizard... yea i played a wizard who used a 2 handed battleaxe as his 'staff' (there were compensating jokes of coarse.)
Marmottty Apr 20, 2023 @ 12:16am 
Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:
If you think a barbarian character should wear the head piece that puts your Int to 17...
Side note, the head piece SETS your int to 17. You can't raise int above 17...

Originally posted by Marmottty:
... The crown is giving you 17 in intelligence ...

Originally posted by Marmottty:
... the crown that gives you 17 in intelligence ...

Originally posted by Steppenrazor:
... and in this case a game that apparently gives you an item that sets you to 18 int! with in a couple of hours?!?! ...
I don't get why you are insisting on this. There is no item setting your score at 18.

I begin to believe that this guy was right:
Originally posted by Maitrepof:
i guess it's a troll...
Last edited by Marmottty; Apr 20, 2023 @ 12:26am
Marmottty Apr 20, 2023 @ 12:22am 
Now if you want to strictly talk about THIS game. The crown is useless.
You cannot multiclass yet. If your wizard has less than 17 in INT at level 4 then it's a bad wizard (except in a tank abjurator case).
What other class will take advantage of that? Maybe a little bit the arcane trickster or the eldritch knight subclasses, they are the only one that can really take advantage of that item.
Saying that this item is setting a barbarian at "18" and makes him better than a mage is a joke. Especially when there is no item that giving you a 18 scores (as repeated many times) and your wizard would get a better score already by this time.
Last edited by Marmottty; Apr 20, 2023 @ 12:24am
ExcaliburV Apr 20, 2023 @ 12:37am 
Originally posted by Steppenrazor:
... and in this case a game that apparently gives you an item that sets you to 18 int! with in a couple of hours?!?! ...

You're harping on this a lot considering it's really not that great of an item. I think I'd rather give it to an Arcane Trickster or an Eldritch Knight to help buff their casting, but to give it to a pure wizard is actively hampering them.
Last edited by ExcaliburV; Apr 20, 2023 @ 12:39am
Marmottty Apr 20, 2023 @ 12:39am 
Originally posted by ExcaliburV:
You're harping on this a lot considering it's really not that great of an item. I think I'd rather give it to an Arcane Trickster or an Eldritch Knight to help buff their casting, but to give it to a pure wizard is actively hampering them.
+1, i was talking about it
ExcaliburV Apr 20, 2023 @ 12:42am 
Originally posted by Marmottty:
+1, i was talking about it
Not to mention if you want Lump to actually fight for you and you're not lucky enough for him to get biffed in the fight you summon him, you're probably not getting it.
Steppenrazor Apr 20, 2023 @ 12:44am 
Originally posted by Marmottty:
...Blah Blah BLAH....



oooo.. I'm sorry.. the item i read about is actually now only 17. wow that is sooo much better than the 18 circlet i've read about, seen in a few videos...

*Golf Clap* Wizards are saved!!!!

i mean its only what +3 vs +4? in a game where you'll like at best ever get a +6? if you totally specialize..

heck a starting wizard will only need.. what..

4 levels? to equal/exceed that with the standard attribute spread..
ExcaliburV Apr 20, 2023 @ 12:47am 
Originally posted by Steppenrazor:
oooo.. I'm sorry.. the item i read about is actually now only 17. wow that is sooo much better than the 18 circlet i've read about, seen in a few videos...

*Golf Clap* Wizards are saved!!!!

i mean its only what +3 vs +4? in a game where you'll like at best ever get a +6? if you totally specialize..

heck a starting wizard will only need.. what..

4 levels? to equal/exceed that with the standard attribute spread..

Hahahahaha.

Oh, wait sorry. That was just a little bit rude. I'm going to laugh louder now.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Anyways, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Peace, have a good night.
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Date Posted: Apr 19, 2023 @ 10:42pm
Posts: 108