Damage over time builds/options

[Hiro]

I just wanted to make a wish.

Please allow a few DoT builds to be viable and powerful damage options.

I can't remember a game that actually fulfilled that fantasy. That's it. Thank you for reading my post. It would be really helpful if, any players that share my feelings, upvoted this discussion so it would actually be implemented into existance.

[dolby]

Well you can play with dots just don't expect to compete Vs fireball... Hell even the basic two-handed build will do better that's why every kid uses it. Just not that many options for dots to do the work. System wasn't made for video games. And larians combat is even more front loaded with instant damage and surprise round multiple turns-actions etc makes it even better. Keeping track of multiple dots in pan and paper just isn't practical...slows down the game even more as is. The system is just not great at it.


What little options you do have are all over the place... So it's wonky to make it work like trying to only use ice spells or something similar. You can do it it's just not practical.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Damage over time generally means using a concentration based spell that deals damage every turn, such as Cloud of Daggers, Call Lightning, Spirit Guardians, or Hunger of Hadar.

Melf's Acid Arrow will deal damage for two turns. Fire surfaces will also deal damage for a couple turns.

[Meowella]

Originally posted by kill_the_hippy:

I just wanted to make a wish.

Please allow a few DoT builds to be viable and powerful damage options.

I can't remember a game that actually fulfilled that fantasy. That's it. Thank you for reading my post. It would be really helpful if, any players that share my feelings, upvoted this discussion so it would actually be implemented into existance.

This is DnD.
DoT builds do not exist in dnd, sorry. There are a few spells which can achieve a bit of damage over time, but dnd is designed for action economy, which means it's not designed for people to run about while their enemies slowly die.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Meowella:

Originally posted by kill_the_hippy:

I just wanted to make a wish.

Please allow a few DoT builds to be viable and powerful damage options.

I can't remember a game that actually fulfilled that fantasy. That's it. Thank you for reading my post. It would be really helpful if, any players that share my feelings, upvoted this discussion so it would actually be implemented into existance.

This is DnD.
DoT builds do not exist in dnd, sorry. There are a few spells which can achieve a bit of damage over time, but dnd is designed for action economy, which means it's not designed for people to run about while their enemies slowly die.

This is false. Every concentration based spell that deals damage is a DoT (Cloud of Daggers, Moonbeam, Call Lightning, Hunger of Hadar, Ensnaring Strike, Flaming Sphere). And there are even more at higher levels.

[Randall Danger]

DoTs are pretty crap in a turn based system. Fights take long enough as it is.

[sevensided]

For clarity, this is going to depend on what is meant by DoT. Traditionally, a DoT is an effect applied to a target that requires no further input (expending of an action) or conditionals (target is in a certain area), that continuously deals damage, usually till a timer has expired. By this definition, there are no real DoTs in DnD 5th ed.

A broader definition, using the literal reading of the term, of "something that does damage every time interval (in DnD's case, round to round)" with no further clarifications, (which is what some people seem to be using as a definition) is a touch too broad to be useful (one could argue in such a case that players themselves could be DoTs under such a definition), but if that's what OP is looking for, then Heat Metal is your friend.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by sevensided:

Heat metal is your friend

Oh yeah, I forgot about the war crimes spell 🤣

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Randall Danger:

DoTs are pretty crap in a turn based system. Fights take long enough as it is.

They tend to speed things up as they do massive AoE damage.

[Meowella]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Originally posted by Meowella:

This is DnD.
DoT builds do not exist in dnd, sorry. There are a few spells which can achieve a bit of damage over time, but dnd is designed for action economy, which means it's not designed for people to run about while their enemies slowly die.

This is false. Every concentration based spell that deals damage is a DoT (Cloud of Daggers, Moonbeam, Call Lightning, Hunger of Hadar, Ensnaring Strike, Flaming Sphere). And there are even more at higher levels.

Moonbeam, Call Lightning, and Flaming Sphere are not DoTs because they require an action to use every time you wish them to deal damage.

Ensaring Strike, Spiritual Guardians and Spike Growth can be considered DoTs (2 of them ground dots) however to call it a build is a bit of a stretch simply because they are all concentration, meaning it's not really a play style for a build.

Comparing a build to a one off effect is a big difference - Playing MMOS or other games where you have multiple sources of damage over time on a single opponent is very different to being able to concentrate on a single spell doing minor damage on your turn or conditionally if you move incorrectly.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Meowella:

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

This is false. Every concentration based spell that deals damage is a DoT (Cloud of Daggers, Moonbeam, Call Lightning, Hunger of Hadar, Ensnaring Strike, Flaming Sphere). And there are even more at higher levels.

Moonbeam, Call Lightning, and Flaming Sphere are not DoTs because they require an action to use every time you wish them to deal damage.

This is literally not true of Moonbeam and Flaming Sphere as neither require you to use an action - Moonbeam will continue to deal damage to anything remaining in it's AoE, and Flaming Sphere gets it's own action as well as dealing damage to anything too close.

Besides that, there's nothing in the definition of DoT that says you can't spend actions on it. Persistent damage effects are DoTs. Witchbolt is a DoT.

And there will be many more at later levels - wall of fire, etc.

[Hiro]

The DnD rules is something that I dind't actually consider when I wrote the post and I lost touch with them rules since 20 years ago.
I don't know how much freedom the devs have to go beyond them. All I 'm asking for is for the option for such builds to exist and be viable.
Shamans, necromancers, voodoo mojo summoners etc could easily fulfill these roles, be it with a class specific quest, an item, a passive, a skill, a summon whatever.
We can talk with animals with a passive, I can't see a reason why a poison skeleton summon for example can't apply a 1HP dot with every hit that stacks each round. This could be percentage based or a flat number balanced around monster HP throughout the content of the game.
This is an example and I can think of a bunch of ways that this could be fun, I just don't know enough of the DnD rules and, again, how much freedom the devs have to even consider such things.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by kill_the_hippy:

The DnD rules is something that I dind't actually consider when I wrote the post and I lost touch with them rules since 20 years ago.
I don't know how much freedom the devs have to go beyond them. All I 'm asking for is for the option for such builds to exist and be viable.
Shamans, necromancers, voodoo mojo summoners etc could easily fulfill these roles, be it with a class specific quest, an item, a passive, a skill, a summon whatever.
We can talk with animals with a passive, I can't see a reason why a poison skeleton summon for example can't apply a 1HP dot with every hit that stacks each round. This could be percentage based or a flat number balanced around monster HP throughout the content of the game.
This is an example and I can think of a bunch of ways that this could be fun, I just don't know enough of the DnD rules and, again, how much freedom the devs have to even consider such things.

Larian isn't changing the base functionality of hiw spell's work in D&D that much.

For the most part (with a couple of exceptions) they are sticking to D&D's rules.

That said, there are quite a few DoT spells to choose from, so if that's your goal, you can do it.

Phantasmal Force is another one I forgot to mention.

[Meowella]

Originally posted by kill_the_hippy:

The DnD rules is something that I dind't actually consider when I wrote the post and I lost touch with them rules since 20 years ago.
I don't know how much freedom the devs have to go beyond them. All I 'm asking for is for the option for such builds to exist and be viable.
Shamans, necromancers, voodoo mojo summoners etc could easily fulfill these roles, be it with a class specific quest, an item, a passive, a skill, a summon whatever.
We can talk with animals with a passive, I can't see a reason why a poison skeleton summon for example can't apply a 1HP dot with every hit that stacks each round. This could be percentage based or a flat number balanced around monster HP throughout the content of the game.
This is an example and I can think of a bunch of ways that this could be fun, I just don't know enough of the DnD rules and, again, how much freedom the devs have to even consider such things.

Pathfinder games - Kingmaker and WotR - both have the option to do what you're after, so you can look at them if you want an RPG with dot builds. As for BG3, it's very unlikely to create much in the way of dots outside of the odd magic weapon.
If BG implements grappling in a positive manner then you can be in a strong position to play your one concentration spell and then grapple the foes within it. If not, build a Spirit Guardians Clerics since that's a very good aoe.

[Gaius]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Originally posted by Meowella:

This is DnD.
DoT builds do not exist in dnd, sorry. There are a few spells which can achieve a bit of damage over time, but dnd is designed for action economy, which means it's not designed for people to run about while their enemies slowly die.

This is false. Every concentration based spell that deals damage is a DoT (Cloud of Daggers, Moonbeam, Call Lightning, Hunger of Hadar, Ensnaring Strike, Flaming Sphere). And there are even more at higher levels.

I don't think they are what peole usually think when talking about DoTs. Dot's are debuffs in a character, not areas that deal damage every turn IF you stand on them. The obvious examples in BG3 would be poison and burning.

But I agree they aren't viable as a build by themselves. People coming from other RPGs and MMOs might be used to the afflicton warlocks and shadow priests, no such here - even tough they DO work in a action economy system, because they lack initial damage, the damage is just postponed and you do damage in later tuns - but this is a whole complicated discussion.

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by Gaius:

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

This is false. Every concentration based spell that deals damage is a DoT (Cloud of Daggers, Moonbeam, Call Lightning, Hunger of Hadar, Ensnaring Strike, Flaming Sphere). And there are even more at higher levels.

I don't think they are what peole usually think when talking about DoTs. Dot's are debuffs in a character, not areas that deal damage every turn IF you stand on them. The obvious examples in BG3 would be poison and burning.

But I agree they aren't viable as a build by themselves. People coming from other RPGs and MMOs might be used to the afflicton warlocks and shadow priests, no such here - even tough they DO work in a action economy system, because they lack initial damage, the damage is just postponed and you do damage in later tuns - but this is a whole complicated discussion.

True, but we use what we've got. There's no Shadow Word: Pain in DnD, after all.

You can very much do a ton of damage over time in DnD, but it requires some serious teamwork due to concentration limitations. A friendly druid's entangle or wizard's web can really make your Hunger of Hadar or Sickening Radiance wreck enemies over the course of several turns.