Threatening Children

[Callirgos]

What are the Tieflings talking about? Apparently someone named Mol did something?

I have zero mention of anyone by that name anywhere in my journal.
I'm legitimately confused.

Why do I have to kill everyone in Chapter 1 now?

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by Adam__86:

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Because they're assets to her. She doesn't care when tieflings outside her gang die.

Because people don't care about the orphans thus her bitterness to outsiders. If people are kind to the orphans she warms to them

This whole thread is about how Mol can tell the adults you're mean and they'll all rush to her defense. Like hell people don't care about the orphans.

[HappyThoughts]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Originally posted by Adam__86:

Because people don't care about the orphans thus her bitterness to outsiders. If people are kind to the orphans she warms to them

This whole thread is about how Mol can tell the adults you're mean and they'll all rush to her defense. Like hell people don't care about the orphans.

I thought this whole thread was about how a bunch of war orphans freshly escaped from a plane of hell and committing some petty theft was as bad as a congregation of druids sworn to protect nature and balance threatening to kill them either directly or indirectly.

[Yaldabaoth]

Tiefling children are the only real threat in the game. You can't permanently silence them.

[Callirgos]

Here's the plan.
We know that Mol/Quests are bugged (scripted poorly)
We're going to reload to a save just after entering the Druid/Tiefling town.

Drink some 11% Dragon's Milk....
Do over.

I would accept the consequences if I had any agency in whatever happened.
But since I didn't...
Let's see how the script variables fly this time around. *rolling dice*

(... I'm half afraid that because the town was already loaded the script variables are already set in some pre-patch, perma-broke, state.)

[Callirgos]

Originally posted by Adam__86:

Love the edgelords THE REFUGEES DESERVE DEATH

FYI if you killed the refugees you just got played

REPORT:
The game seems determined to turn all the Tieflings hostile. If you offend one of them, or fail any kind of social interaction with any of them, they all act like a hive-mind. Even entering specific area may cause some Tieflings to go into a logic loop that results in combat.

SPECULATION:
It's absolutely incredible to me that this happens. I refuse to believe that any quest designer, scripter, or narrative designer intended this. It must be an error.

What team would green light all this voice over, character dialogue, and personal interactions, only to fall back on "FACTION:HOSTILE"?

PRODUCTION VALUE:
The level of polish leading up to the Grove sets expectations to a high bar. But an entire town going aggro as a consequence to an individual interaction is a stark contrast to that high bar. This is a priority 1 issue that impacts the production value of the product.

It's worth the time/money to detail individualized Tiefling NPC responses, and thoroughly disambiguate the level of hostility for each negative NPC response.

DATA ANALYTICS:
I'd speculate the metrics for player drop-off in the grove are very high. Recommend attaching a data point to the event of All Tieflings going hostile and compare that to players exiting, and not returning. You can refine the search to players with less than 15 hours of game time for a better sample as well.

[xabungle]

lol this will happens if you go into the kids secret hideout and don't leave when Mol tells you too. She counts down. If you don't leave in the time she tells you , the whole camp becomes hostile

[Janthis]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Originally posted by Adam__86:

Because people don't care about the orphans thus her bitterness to outsiders. If people are kind to the orphans she warms to them

This whole thread is about how Mol can tell the adults you're mean and they'll all rush to her defense. Like hell people don't care about the orphans.

I think the bigger problem is there's no way to reason with them and tell your side without a huge persuasion check. In other words, the kids are psychos and the adults are idiots. Seems like they deserve to die after all.

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by xabungle:

lol this will happens if you go into the kids secret hideout and don't leave when Mol tells you too. She counts down. If you don't leave in the time she tells you , the whole camp becomes hostile

So they actually aggro?

I was expecting something like being thrown into jail

[D YellowMadness]

So the lesson is "Don't investigate a highly illegal-looking hideout that screams of no-good after a kid intentionally leads you in. Leave because a random kid you've never met told you to. Otherwise, Larion will break your game for no in-universe reason." Nice roleplaying. ♥♥♥♥ off with your required 20-roll & your """"RNG"""" that fails me by several miles every time even when I'm rolling 2 dice.

♥♥♥♥ off with your forced deceit check that only happens because I'm forced to tell a lie instead of being allowed to tell the truth: That I didn't threaten anyone. Can't be having that huh, because then my charisma & persuasion would actually matter & I wouldn't be stuck.

[Kalitz]

Devs are punishing you for not bending backwards for criminal sc*m, because "muh childruns".

[Husker_85]

The little ♥♥♥♥♥ go run to the guards and lie about you threatening them. It's not fair, but it's kinda realistic. So in order to avoid being arrested or attacked you may have to suck it up and just let go of the loot they stole from you.

[Hexoplex]

For Mol to be happy:

Save kid in Grove
Save kid from Harpies
Help kid with Locket
Don't yell/threaten the pick pocket, just let them go

[Zarek]

Originally posted by Johnny_B_80:

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

This whole thread is about how Mol can tell the adults you're mean and they'll all rush to her defense. Like hell people don't care about the orphans.

I think the bigger problem is there's no way to reason with them and tell your side without a huge persuasion check. In other words, the kids are psychos and the adults are idiots. Seems like they deserve to die after all.

This is the recurring issue I have in the game. Too many places where a rational adult might come up with an answer not represented in the dialogue. Every rpg has that to some degree, but here its glaring. Like this example doesnt offer a dialogue analogous to: "[Persuasion] Nah, this little ♥♥♥♥ stole my money I followed him through a rock crevice and then this other little ♥♥♥♥ started counting down and lying her ass off" or another example: I feel like handling the kid who stole the idol the choices that exist are basically endorse the behavior and tell the druids to get over it OR straight to capital punishment.

[Ranpo]

Mol is evil, probably the most evil Tiefling in the game.

[Edible Eyebrows]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Originally posted by Adam__86:

Someone didn't read the dialogue. Mol is doing what she can to keep the orphans safe, her entire motivation is getting the orphans to BG alive

Because they're assets to her. She doesn't care when tieflings outside her gang die.

Let's be fair, she is a literal child. It's understandable that her moral outlook is uncomplicated.

She is looking out for her own because nobody else is. She is doing so in a shortsighted way of course, but hey what more do you expect from a kid who literally just got out of hell?

She is in the game to demonstrate that people can do bad things out of narrow ignorance rather than malice, she is not a complex character.

Meybe it's an age thing, I can see how younger players may fixate on her actions, but as an older player I guess I gravitate to a parental role and always want to try to guide the gang of little crooks towards a better way.

I have more time for the kids since they have clearly lacked guidence, whereas many of the adult characters really should know better.

(Also people who are treating the grove as a simple migrant/refugee situation are really overly projecting their own politics here. Druid groves are meant to be sanctuaries, karga casting out the refugees without ensuring their safe passage IS a violation of her duties. They are not some independent nation, but a religious order with a code to be upheld, which is why Halsin demotes her to novice if you let him take charge again)