Casting stat for spells granted by items? (Solved!)

[Chronos]

I know scrolls all use int, which makes sense. But what about staves?
I am playing a sorc/wiz. I could swear the fireball from my staff used to use cha like my normal fireballs, but I've just realized it's using my lower int now. Is it always int? Is it class dependent and my multiclass is just messing it up?


EDIT:
I did my own testing. Respec and item/scroll hoarding helps.

So my conclusions:
First, equipable items that grant you a spell and scrolls seem to function the same.

The stat used for such spells is determined by the last class you added to your build but NOT the last class you took a level in.
For example (using the same classes from my initial question, though I did also test cleric.):
Sorc1>Wiz1>sorc10 uses int.
Sorc11>Wiz1 uses int
Sorc1>Wiz11 uses int
Wiz2>Sorc10 uses cha
Wiz1>Sorc10>Wiz1 uses cha

I tested this mostly using scrolls of firebolt and scrolls of witch bolt. Firebolt had the benefit of being known from sorc in all cases in case that mattered and witch bolt was known by neither class in case that mattered. It did not seem to matter in either case.

I'm going to submit a bug report because I assume the intention is for it to use the higher stat, or at least the higher leveled class, but there are the answers for now!

Another update with more testing: Long story short what I have written above is correct. I did find a couple more weird things though.

First, if a spell is granted by an item that is equipped you may have to unequip and re-equip it to have it update. Scrolls naturally don't suffer from this.

Second, half casters care about their first level not the level they gain spells. So a wiz6>rng1>wiz5 uses... wisdom for their scrolls and items. For obvious reasons the attribute used is cha for paladin and wis for ranger.

Now the funkiest part. Fighter, Rogue, and yes even Monk and Barbarian do this too! The first level in any of these classes, even though they either do not give spells at all or include subclasses you could take to never get spells, determines your spell attribute for items and scrolls. Monk uses wis, Fighter and Rogue use int, and Barbarian uses cha. Yes, even if you have real casting classes, taking a level of barb will change the stat for item spells to cha.

Anyway, that should be all the research needed for this. It applies to triple, quad, and dodeca-classing alike.

TLDR: The attribute used for spells gained from items and scrolls is determined by the last class you took a first level in, not the value of your stats themselves or how many levels you have in what class. The following is a list of what classes go with what attributes, and again this is determined by the first level, whether or not you eventually take the class to a point where it can cast spells.

Int: Fighter, Rogue, Wizard
Wis: Cleric, Druid, Monk, Ranger
Cha: Barbarian, Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer, Warlock

[❃ Galiäna Krüger ❃]

All weapons only deal in STR or DEX with physical attack, while magical attack through ANY weapon that is proficiently used by your character (because not proficient = no cast magic) is solely based on the spell damage stat which is INT, WIS, CHA.

INT = Wizard
WIS = Cleric, Druid, Ranger
CHA = Bard, Paladin, Warlock, Sorcerer

Edit: Not sure which weapon exactly give you "Fireball" evocation spell - I have 90%+ rarity weapons collected in 1st playthrough (and making up that last 10% in 2nd now) and I don't remember seeing staves that give "Fireball" - there's "Fire Bolt" but "Fireball" is a lv3 spell.

On my 2nd playthrough I have Gale and I'm reading now as a spell "Fire Ball" it is using my INT spell damage stat. DEX save for enemies got it from it.

[Chronos]

Sure, I get that. What I am asking is what stat a spell granted by equipment uses for its to hit/save dc.

The example I gave was a staff that grants 1/rest fireball. I have more sorcerer than any other class and charisma is my highest stat, but it uses int.

Replaying to your edit: There are two staves I know of that give fireball. The legendary Markoheshkir (if you choose the fire mode) and the incandescent staff from act 2.

[❃ Galiäna Krüger ❃]

Originally posted by Chronos:

Sure, I get that. What I am asking is what stat a spell granted by equipment uses for its to hit/save dc.

The example I gave was a staff that grants 1/rest fireball. I have more sorcerer than any other class and charisma is my highest stat, but it uses int.

I just told you. It uses whichever stat the weapon is used with whichever character. You have it on Wiz its INT; Cleric/Druid/Ranger its WIS; and CHA for Bard/Pally/Warlock/Sorc.

And looks like you're multiclassing - so Sorc is your main? Not a second or third class?

Edit: Oh the legendary staff, I never bother look at the stat lawd I just keep it because 1st playthrough its useless to me. Incandescent, probably, doesn't ring a bell. Too many equipment hoarded lawd

[Ackranome]

Originally posted by ❃ Galiäna Krüger ❃:

Originally posted by Chronos:

Sure, I get that. What I am asking is what stat a spell granted by equipment uses for its to hit/save dc.

The example I gave was a staff that grants 1/rest fireball. I have more sorcerer than any other class and charisma is my highest stat, but it uses int.

I just told you. It uses whichever stat the weapon is used with whichever character. You have it on Wiz its INT; Cleric/Druid/Ranger its WIS; and CHA for Bard/Pally/Warlock/Sorc.

And looks like you're multiclassing - so Sorc is your main? Not a second or third class?

So, if my wizard uses a scroll - it isn't based on the scroll spell type i.e. Wis for "cleric" spells?

[Chronos]

Originally posted by ❃ Galiäna Krüger ❃:

Originally posted by Chronos:

Sure, I get that. What I am asking is what stat a spell granted by equipment uses for its to hit/save dc.

The example I gave was a staff that grants 1/rest fireball. I have more sorcerer than any other class and charisma is my highest stat, but it uses int.

I just told you. It uses whichever stat the weapon is used with whichever character. You have it on Wiz its INT; Cleric/Druid/Ranger its WIS; and CHA for Bard/Pally/Warlock/Sorc.

And looks like you're multiclassing - so Sorc is your main? Not a second or third class?

Correct. Sorcerer is both my initial class, the class in which I have the most levels, and in fact the last class leveled. (I believe the order I followed is Sorc6>Wiz2>Sorc4.) And yet the fireball granted by the staves is int based.

Not the end of the world mind you. I can cast fireball, but I was hoping somebody knew what determined the stat used if you are not in only one spellcasting class.

[Chronos]

Originally posted by Ackranome:

Originally posted by ❃ Galiäna Krüger ❃:

I just told you. It uses whichever stat the weapon is used with whichever character. You have it on Wiz its INT; Cleric/Druid/Ranger its WIS; and CHA for Bard/Pally/Warlock/Sorc.

And looks like you're multiclassing - so Sorc is your main? Not a second or third class?

So, if my wizard uses a scroll - it isn't based on the scroll spell type i.e. Wis for "cleric" spells?

From what I have read scrolls specifically are always int. I have not tested this myself though.

[❃ Galiäna Krüger ❃]

On a side note, 2nd playthrough my Druid is using a staff with "Fire Bolt" now and I am looking everywhere it seems it just uses WIS spell damage that's for Druid - didn't see anywhere it mentioned otherwise it'd be using spell cast damage from INT or CHA. (Checking spellbook)

[❃ Galiäna Krüger ❃]

Originally posted by Ackranome:

So, if my wizard uses a scroll - it isn't based on the scroll spell type i.e. Wis for "cleric" spells?

That's what it says in game when you go to the character stats page and hover over the fine text in INT, WIS, CHA. Wis is for cleric's spells, yes. If you use a scroll via a cleric.

Plus, all spells - scrolls, spellbook or cantrip from weapon all only mentioned what type of SAVE enemies hit by the spell need to make not the spell damage it rolls from - hence my conclusion based on what the game designed which spell damage stat it pulls from based on classes.

[❃ Galiäna Krüger ❃]

Originally posted by Chronos:

Originally posted by ❃ Galiäna Krüger ❃:

I just told you. It uses whichever stat the weapon is used with whichever character. You have it on Wiz its INT; Cleric/Druid/Ranger its WIS; and CHA for Bard/Pally/Warlock/Sorc.

And looks like you're multiclassing - so Sorc is your main? Not a second or third class?

Correct. Sorcerer is both my initial class, the class in which I have the most levels, and in fact the last class leveled. (I believe the order I followed is Sorc6>Wiz2>Sorc4.) And yet the fireball granted by the staves is int based.

Not the end of the world mind you. I can cast fireball, but I was hoping somebody knew what determined the stat used if you are not in only one spellcasting class.

That's outta my play atm, I haven't bother using multiclassing - maybe that's a bug? lawd

[Ackranome]

Originally posted by ❃ Galiäna Krüger ❃:

Originally posted by Ackranome:

So, if my wizard uses a scroll - it isn't based on the scroll spell type i.e. Wis for "cleric" spells?

That's what it says in game when you go to the character stats page and hover over the fine text in INT, WIS, CHA. Wis is for cleric's spells, yes. If you use a scroll via a cleric.

Plus, all spells - scrolls, spellbook or cantrip from weapon all only mentioned what type of SAVE enemies hit by the spell need to make not the spell damage it rolls from - hence my conclusion based on what the game designed which spell damage stat it pulls from based on classes.

Huh. Would of thought it wouldn't be based on that. Interesting.

[❃ Galiäna Krüger ❃]

Discovery: I think I may know the reason - although classes' spellcast damage are separated by INT, WIS, and CHA but if the spell (cantrip) is from a weapon or indeed from a scroll - it default using INT and based on the character's proficiency in ARCANA

As it stated in game: Arcana: Recognise magic. Interact with enchanted items.

Edit: Therefore my new conclusion - if its from your spellbook, you use the default spellcast damage stat (as mentioned in previous comment too lazy to retype), BUT if the spell comes in the form as an additional cantrip from a weapon or a scroll then it's INT because Arcana proficiency in interacting with item with magical attributes.

[Cirrus]

Originally posted by Chronos:

Sure, I get that. What I am asking is what stat a spell granted by equipment uses for its to hit/save dc.

This is very interesting question and there is something wrong with this.

I am multiclass and items use the worse casting stat for me. My higher casting stat is class what I took level one. It is also class that I have more levels. Still the item casting stat comes from class that I took later and have lower levels.

My assumption: Item casting stat comes from the last class you took levels and have spell casting stat.

Above speculation about it being INT is false. Or at least INT items do not help.

[Chronos]

Originally posted by ❃ Galiäna Krüger ❃:

Discovery: I think I may know the reason - although classes' spellcast damage are separated by INT, WIS, and CHA but if the spell (cantrip) is from a weapon or indeed from a scroll - it default using INT and based on the character's proficiency in ARCANA

As it stated in game: Arcana: Recognise magic. Interact with enchanted items.

Edit: Therefore my new conclusion - if its from your spellbook, you use the default spellcast damage stat (as mentioned in previous comment too lazy to retype), BUT if the spell comes in the form as an additional cantrip from a weapon or a scroll then it's INT because Arcana proficiency in interacting with item with magical attributes.

Originally posted by Cirrus:

Originally posted by Chronos:

Sure, I get that. What I am asking is what stat a spell granted by equipment uses for its to hit/save dc.

This is very interesting question and there is something wrong with this.

I am multiclass and items use the worse casting stat for me. My higher casting stat is class what I took level one. It is also class that I have more levels. Still the item casting stat comes from class that I took later and have lower levels.

My assumption: Item casting stat comes from the last class you took levels and have spell casting stat.

Above speculation about it being INT is false. Or at least INT items do not help.

I did some testing and updated the original post if you're interested!
Long story short it is based on the last class you added to your build but NOT the last level you took in a spellcasting class!

[Cirrus]

Originally posted by Chronos:

Originally posted by ❃ Galiäna Krüger ❃:

Discovery: I think I may know the reason - although classes' spellcast damage are separated by INT, WIS, and CHA but if the spell (cantrip) is from a weapon or indeed from a scroll - it default using INT and based on the character's proficiency in ARCANA

As it stated in game: Arcana: Recognise magic. Interact with enchanted items.

Edit: Therefore my new conclusion - if its from your spellbook, you use the default spellcast damage stat (as mentioned in previous comment too lazy to retype), BUT if the spell comes in the form as an additional cantrip from a weapon or a scroll then it's INT because Arcana proficiency in interacting with item with magical attributes.

Originally posted by Cirrus:

This is very interesting question and there is something wrong with this.

I am multiclass and items use the worse casting stat for me. My higher casting stat is class what I took level one. It is also class that I have more levels. Still the item casting stat comes from class that I took later and have lower levels.

My assumption: Item casting stat comes from the last class you took levels and have spell casting stat.

Above speculation about it being INT is false. Or at least INT items do not help.

I did some testing and updated the original post if you're interested!
Long story short it is based on the last class you added to your build but NOT the last level you took in a spellcasting class!

You should open bug repprt to Larian about this. Or at least minimum post it their forums under gameplay problems forum.

It is stupid they have it like this now.

[Chronos]

Update! More testing needed. I Respecced to add a level of warlock to my sorc/wiz and ran into the first instance I've had of spells from items and scrolls being different. I tested the two scrolls I mentioned before and they were charisma, so I figured all was well, but the fireball granted by Markoheshkir was still int based!

I'll try and test more things later, but if anyone has answers for this I would love to hear them!

Edit: So it turns out that if spells granted by items are equipped when you respec they keep the old stat I guess? Unequipping and re-equipping the item to get the spells back figures them with charisma.