Can someone explain why Wyll's... [spoiler]

[Precache]

Why is Wyll's "monstrous" change such a big deal? I mean with Tieflings in the world, it's not unusual to see someone walking around with horns.

And is he a Tiefling? I'm not exactly sure what the distinction is.

[The1Kobra]

Well, is it a big deal? Up to you if it is or not.

Now of course, being pacted to a fiend IS a pretty big deal. It means they're basically a fiend's minion. And damned to Baator unless they get out of it.
But there are going to be people who act on first instinct when they see someone.

He's technically not a tiefling after the change, but he's basically had the essence of the hells grafted onto him. He doesn't behave any differently as far as I know, and he's not compelled to lawful evil behavior either.

[Abisha]

nobody will ever comment on it anyway so it's basically pointless they write it in.

[Grimsdottir]

You also have to consider his background. He's a folk hero, someone who has aided people in need. For such a person with a golden background, especially given his dad is the head of the Police essentially in Baldur's Gate, to see him with HORNS. A variety of reasons come to mind but not many are good. So think about it as a smearing of reputation in a manner.

[ProestUnicorn]

Not a thiefling. He got durned either into devil or a demon(yes, diffrent things). More nuanced dnd things aside, if You got forced into permament surgery which changed your skin colour, added a couple of gigantic horns, a tail, full face restructurisation, would it be a small deal?:d

[talemore]

no

[Hex]

Originally posted by Abisha:

nobody will ever comment on it anyway so it's basically pointless they write it in.

Not true. The councilor whatever in waukeens rest does ask Wyll wtf happened to him.

[The1Kobra]

Originally posted by Abisha:

nobody will ever comment on it anyway so it's basically pointless they write it in.

Actually I did find several spots NPCs comment on it. In one instance you can have Wyll bypass a skill check on a gatekeeping guard in baldur's gate if he doesn't have horns, but won't believe he's the son of Duke Ravenguard if he does have them.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by Grimsdottir:

You also have to consider his background. He's a folk hero, someone who has aided people in need. For such a person with a golden background, especially given his dad is the head of the Police essentially in Baldur's Gate, to see him with HORNS. A variety of reasons come to mind but not many are good. So think about it as a smearing of reputation in a manner.

The issue with this is that in the same conversation where he complains that his new appearance will frighten people, possibly even in the sentence immediately preceding, he describes how he used to summon armies of devils at his command at will. If people are willing to overlook him doing that and still consider him a folk hero then they're not going to care about a couple of horns.

[Black Magic]

Because his physical body was transformed into that of a Devil and he reeks of the essence of the nine Hells.

For example, Tieflings were originally viewed poorly by the general populace because of their diabolical inheritance; while Devils and their patrons (those above even them) are renowned for being purely malicious, conniving. Evil. As in every circumstance—barring the very, very rare exception depending on the DM running the campaign—pacts with fiends never, ever go well for you. So for Wyll to be transformed into a Devil which are overtly known not to be trustworthy and are dangerous to make deals with, it is a huge deal. You can't trust a Devil's word, there's always a hidden caveat behind every syllable and they're always after something that will ultimately screw you over in ways that are permeable.

Karlach puts it plainly that Devils always win, and the vast majority of the time, they do. Making a pact is a huge gamble with Fiends especially. It's essentially an adage to the ol' folklore tale of selling one's soul to Satan (The Devil), once the transaction is complete you're condemned and there's no way out unless there is some sort of loophole or you're saved by a greater power - and that's rare in D&D, because Devils are very intelligent. They even have an entire currency in the Hells called "Soul Coins" and if you've figured it out, they're literally infused with the souls of mortals.

In short;-

Wyll being turned into a Devil - at least physically - ruins his reputation. It's a punishment. It ruins his image as that of a hero. People are afraid of him, and he even comments on them turning away from him, avoiding him, or running away from him, simply due to the common knowledge that Devil's are evil.

[Abisha]

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Because his physical body was transformed into that of a Devil and he reeks of the essence of the nine Hells.

For example, Tieflings were originally viewed poorly by the general populace because of their diabolical inheritance; while Devils and their patrons (those above even them) are renowned for being purely malicious, conniving. Evil. As in every circumstance—barring the very, very rare exception depending on the DM running the campaign—pacts with fiends never, ever go well for you. So for Wyll to be transformed into a Devil which are overtly known not to be trustworthy and are dangerous to make deals with, it is a huge deal. You can't trust a Devil's word, there's always a hidden caveat behind every syllable and they're always after something that will ultimately screw you over in ways that are permeable.

Karlach puts it plainly that Devils always win, and the vast majority of the time, they do. Making a pact is a huge gamble with Fiends especially. It's essentially an adage to the ol' folklore tale of selling one's soul to Satan (The Devil), once the transaction is complete you're condemned and there's no way out unless there is some sort of loophole or you're saved by a greater power - and that's rare in D&D, because Devils are very intelligent. They even have an entire currency in the Hells called "Soul Coins" and if you've figured it out, they're literally infused with the souls of mortals.

i do find it funny because most devils are true to there words.
even in this game there is absolute no lies being told or false information being given by any of the devils.

[Black Magic]

Originally posted by Abisha:

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Because his physical body was transformed into that of a Devil and he reeks of the essence of the nine Hells.

For example, Tieflings were originally viewed poorly by the general populace because of their diabolical inheritance; while Devils and their patrons (those above even them) are renowned for being purely malicious, conniving. Evil. As in every circumstance—barring the very, very rare exception depending on the DM running the campaign—pacts with fiends never, ever go well for you. So for Wyll to be transformed into a Devil which are overtly known not to be trustworthy and are dangerous to make deals with, it is a huge deal. You can't trust a Devil's word, there's always a hidden caveat behind every syllable and they're always after something that will ultimately screw you over in ways that are permeable.

Karlach puts it plainly that Devils always win, and the vast majority of the time, they do. Making a pact is a huge gamble with Fiends especially. It's essentially an adage to the ol' folklore tale of selling one's soul to Satan (The Devil), once the transaction is complete you're condemned and there's no way out unless there is some sort of loophole or you're saved by a greater power - and that's rare in D&D, because Devils are very intelligent. They even have an entire currency in the Hells called "Soul Coins" and if you've figured it out, they're literally infused with the souls of mortals.

i do find it funny because most devils are true to there words.
even in this game there is absolute no lies being told or false information being given by any of the devils.

That's because the greatest lie is the truth for them. Raphael is never actually straight with you, not for one instance. You essentially have to interrogate him. Spoilers Yurgir turns out to be a runaway servant of Raphael who wants to kill him, and the pact requirement he had with him was that the only way he could kill Raphael is if he slew the last Dark Justiciar in the Gauntlet of Shar, who Raphael intentionally turned into a Rat so that he'd never find him. Turning Yurgir against Raphael significantly weakens him in the House of Hope. You can actually find and kill this Sharran Justiciar in the Gauntlet of Shar, which gives you the option to convince Yurgir to turn against Raphael.

It also turns out Raphael wants the Crown of Karsus, which would enable him to overthrow the Archdevils (including the god Asmodeus who is essentially Lucifer) and take over the Nine Hells. Which is very bad, you get a really bad outcome because of this.

[CorwynCorey]

It is not a big deal to ME... but others will see the obviously Devilish change. He is obviously not a tiefling... but a Cambion in appearance... or at least a cross breed.

And worse for those who knows he was human.
Obvious devilish influence. Warlock powers. So... yeah. Not looked upon favourably.

[Vheissu]

Wyll is kind of a big baby about it. He's also in denial about his choice to become a warlock, even taking the circumstances into account

[afronaut]

Originally posted by Abisha:

nobody will ever comment on it anyway so it's basically pointless they write it in.

Incorrect. When in Baldur's Gate, if Wyll is in your party when you try to go certain places, he will chime in and claim to be the son of Duke Ravengard, which the guards will then laugh at him and his horns.

[Abisha]

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Originally posted by Abisha:

i do find it funny because most devils are true to there words.
even in this game there is absolute no lies being told or false information being given by any of the devils.

That's because greatest lie is the truth for them. Raphael is never straight for you, not for one instance. Spoilers Yurgir turns out to be a runaway servant of Raphael who wants to kill him, and the pact requirement he had with him was that the only way he could kill Raphael is if he slew the last Dark Justiciar in the Gauntlet of Shar, who Raphael intentionally turned into a Rat. Turning Yurgir against Raphael significantly weakens him in the House of Hope.

It also turns out Raphael wants the Crown of Karsus, which will enabling him to overthrow the Archdevils (including the god Asmodeus who is essentially Lucifer) and take over the Nine Hells. Which is very bad, you get a really bad outcome because of this.

the crown was already in hell, and the blood war would never be stopped even with the crown.
the whole ordeal the writers made of Raphael is pure nonsense tanar'ri and baatezu would never ever unite. and shows the writers have no respect for the lore.