Has the "Strong-Woman" trope run its course?

[srfrogg23]

Most of the warriors and melee characters are females while the spell casters and rogues are males. Ok, so most of the entertainment industry for male-oriented products these days has jumped on that bandwagon under the false pretense that they're doing something "new" and "different", or whatever. It's fine, I bought the game anyway and I'm enjoying it, but am I really the only one whose finding this trend to be pretty tiresome?

Why is the idea of women dying on the front-lines of combat so popular in today's entertainment industry? What kind of school did the writers go to where all of the jocks in their school were girls and the guys just sat around in the background? In what world are women the most brutal and violent gender while males are the passive intellectuals?

I personally don't find the "warrior woman" archetype to be intimidating like I would expect an axe-wielding barbarian or heavily armored knight to be. Take Karlach for example. Super bubbly. Pretty nice chick. I'd have a few beers with her. But, I just don't see her as being a "badass". She seems more like a Pick Me girl than anything else, really. Lae'zel seems worse. Scrawny. Generally cranky, but not particularly scary, either.

I think Orin might be the only female character in the game that I legitimately find intimidating. Not because she's brutishly strong, but because she's got that psycho-Harley Quinn thing going. She's a few sandwiches short of a picnic, if you know what I mean.

So, of course, melee combat, the thing that guys have historically been thrown on the frontlines to do is now reserved for women, so instead the males now sneak around or fling spells from the back while women half their size are expected to do all the fighting. I know it's a fantasy world, but there's really only so much I can do to suspend disbelief. What kinds of guys would be like, "hey you with the ovaries, yeah, you go first and get hit in the face with an axe while I hide behind you".

All in all, I think it would be refreshing to see the entertainment industry create characters and scenarios that are more reflective of the world we live in today.

[NixAhmose]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Originally posted by NixAhmose:

Can you please cite me what sources you've been reading that show bare-naked men being able to beat a T-Rex to death with their bare hands?

That's magic, not muscles.

I will cite the rules for physical strength; you can carry 15lbs of weight per 1 point in strength. 10 strength is considered an average human who can carry around 150lbs at most, it's obviously similar to our world (our average is weaker, but something tells me Faeruns obesity levels are lower).

No, Barbarians and fighters have no innate magical abilities and yet can pull insane feats like that.

[SnuffSaid]

Originally posted by Ichthyic:

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

You have absolutely zero knowledge of medieval history. Zero. You just saw dragons and zombies and made an asinine assumption.

House Lannister - House Lancaster
House Stark - House York
Kings Landing - London
The Wall - Hadrians Wall
The Wildlings - The Scots
The Valyrians - The Romans
Criston Cole The Kingmaker - Warwick Kingmaker
First Men - Celts
Andals - Angles
Rhoyne - Saxons
Dothraki - Mongols
Ironborn - Vikings

The list goes on but I'm bored of schooling you, read a book instead.

no, it's you thinking fantasy novels are BASED on history instead of just using the ideas as a trope that is funny. really, really funny.

again, it's as if all you have ever DONE is read books... disconnected from reality. reality is a thing... it requires you to participate in it. not ignore it.

I didn't say "based", I said "historical influences".

Nice attempt to move the goalposts, but there is no way to wipe that egg off your face now. I warned you not to embarrass yourself.

[NixAhmose]

Originally posted by MewTressym:

Originally posted by NixAhmose:

Can you please cite me what sources you've been reading that show bare-naked men being able to beat a T-Rex to death with their bare hands?

T-Rex's along with most of the dinosaurs died out in the Cretaceous period long before the first great apes that would have been the ancestors to humans even appeared in the Pleistocene period.

The only place such an interaction could occur is in fantasy.

Unless we revive the dinos. :P Or you consider alligators/crocodiles as your replacement for the Rex comparison. In which case we have plenty of examples of men manhandling them now.

So you can’t find anything that proves that muscles in DnD works the same as they do in real life.

[sick duck]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Originally posted by Ichthyic:

no, it's you thinking fantasy novels are BASED on history instead of just using the ideas as a trope that is funny. really, really funny.

again, it's as if all you have ever DONE is read books... disconnected from reality. reality is a thing... it requires you to participate in it. not ignore it.

I didn't say "based", I said "historical influences".

Nice attempt to move the goalposts, but there is no way to wipe that egg off your face now. I warned you not to embarrass yourself.

Would you ever condier reading malazan based on what I've said? Your post history tells me no, but your ownership of this game indicates that a bit of diversity and equality isn't enough to stop you from considering it at least. If it helps I can tell you that the writing quality is higher quality than most things in fantasy, and BG3 isn't what I would call a prime example of the genre itself.

[SnuffSaid]

Originally posted by NixAhmose:

Originally posted by MewTressym:

T-Rex's along with most of the dinosaurs died out in the Cretaceous period long before the first great apes that would have been the ancestors to humans even appeared in the Pleistocene period.

The only place such an interaction could occur is in fantasy.

Unless we revive the dinos. :P Or you consider alligators/crocodiles as your replacement for the Rex comparison. In which case we have plenty of examples of men manhandling them now.

So you can’t find anything that proves that muscles in DnD works the same as they do in real life.

I literally just gave you the rules on strength.

A 20 strength character can "lift or drag" 600lbs temporarily, that's impressive powerlifting strength, but it's not "punch out a T-rex" strength. Barbarians "rage" clearly isn't just "getting angry" any more than a bard is "just playing a lute". They are bolstering themselves with magical abilities.

[MewTressym]

Originally posted by NixAhmose:

So you can’t find anything that proves that muscles in DnD works the same as they do in real life.

<---- different person from who you were originally talking to. You mentioned dinosaurs so I chimed in because I like dinosaurs. :P

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Psychrome:

Me and my wife both served in the navy after 9-11 and there were many LBG that were also my friends of both genders. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them served admirably and honorably. The Idea that gender or sexuality could affect your ability to fight in modern times is ridiculous. Do you think wars are still fought with swords? This has nothing to do with WOKE its literally is the OPs fear and ignorance. The people who still believe that women shouldn't fight on the front lines are honestly embarrassing to me as a Veteran. Yes I am White, yes i am Male and yes i believe that in a world where most of my family male and females participated in every war since the founding of this country, that an Ignorant fearful bigot started this post and anybody agreeing with the OP should look hard at themselves in the mirror.

You are joking right? Unless you were a marine "fighting" is way beyond your sphere of experience. Nobody in EVER has ever said maintaining and operating a ship is a mans job. During the iraq war (2003) the only US Naval losses were friendly fire. The Royal navy wiped out the entire Iraq navy in 1991 and it never recovered. Taliban never had a navy as the country is landlocked. Both wars were a sham anyway and had FA to do with 9/11, yes I was ON THE GROUND during both conflicts. Never saw a woman in combat operations unless you consider suicide bombers?

In your subjective experience, sure I accept your statement as an 80 year old can "fight" in your definition of the word. Unfortunately sitting 600 miles away from an enemy in a $500bn dollar strike group shooting farmers with cruise missiles is only dangerous when the said farmer has means to shoot back. Unless your veteran status involved risk you were simply a desk clerk, a job which can be performed by literally anyone with a 90 IQ.

A woman in 2023 that wipes her own backside is given accolades for being a woman who can wipe arse better than any man. Anyone saying a man does something, like 100% of all the jobs that involve risk in the world and white knights and muppets sprout from every corner to deny reality. If during the next war the combat casualties are 50% men and 50% women I will adjust my opinion, until then show some respect to the MEN who actually do the fighting.

[SnuffSaid]

Originally posted by sick duck:

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

I didn't say "based", I said "historical influences".

Nice attempt to move the goalposts, but there is no way to wipe that egg off your face now. I warned you not to embarrass yourself.

Would you ever condier reading malazan based on what I've said? Your post history tells me no, but your ownership of this game indicates that a bit of diversity and equality isn't enough to stop you from considering it at least. If it helps I can tell you that the writing quality is higher quality than most things in fantasy, and BG3 isn't what I would call a prime example of the genre itself.

I find "woke" politics mildly irritating and make my voice known as a consumer that I'd rather they go in a different direction, but no, I'm not a pearl-clutching Conservative, I don't "boycott" things or have a Youtube channel where I scream into a camera about it or anything. On a scale of one to ten, my irritation with political correctness is no higher than a four.

[sick duck]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Originally posted by sick duck:

Would you ever condier reading malazan based on what I've said? Your post history tells me no, but your ownership of this game indicates that a bit of diversity and equality isn't enough to stop you from considering it at least. If it helps I can tell you that the writing quality is higher quality than most things in fantasy, and BG3 isn't what I would call a prime example of the genre itself.

I find "woke" politics mildly irritating and make my voice known as a consumer that I'd rather they go in a different direction, but no, I'm not a pearl-clutching Conservative, I don't "boycott" things or have a Youtube channel where I scream into a camera about it or anything. On a scale of one to ten, my irritation with political correctness is no higher than a four.

Right. Well the author himself is Steven Erikson, he has a lot to say in interviews to his fans about the books series. It would please you to know that the man doesn't signpost stuff like diversity and "woke" He tries to make everything seem natural and actively tries to avoid writing in a way that comes across as preachy or pandering and I think he succeeds at this.

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Laugh their heads off because I value the effort of their males and females equaly fighting a brutal invader? Meanwhile you degrade their women fighting as some "poster models". ? Yeah, wonder who they would laugh/be upset over.

Yes. You clearly don't know any Ukranians, or Eastern Europeans in general.

You would be surprised by who I know and doesn't. But I just realized... you clearly a high STR character, but you suffer from low INT and WIS, so discuss with someone that doesn't seem to see the difference betwee the real world and high fantasy, and who in the fantasy world someone who might not be able to tie his own shoelaces without help. But don't despair, you would be good to carry stuff around.. a good mule -)

About 50k+ Ukraine refugees over here. My county have an asylum center, and several families have settled here. And thus the local community have interaction with them. Me included.

[SnuffSaid]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Yes. You clearly don't know any Ukranians, or Eastern Europeans in general.

You would be surprised by who I know and doesn't. But I just realized... you clearly a high STR character, but you suffer from low INT and WIS, so discuss with someone that doesn't seem to see the difference betwee the real world and high fantasy, and who in the fantasy world someone who might not be able to tie his own shoelaces without help. But don't despair, you would be good to carry stuff around.. a good mule -)

About 50k+ Ukraine refugees over here. My county have an asylum center, and several families have settled here. And thus the local community have interaction with them. Me included.

I wouldn't be surprised, because you clearly know none. I love my Eastern European friends, but they definitely aren't the most "progressive" bunch, even after being in the UK for a long time where that sort of thing is encouraged. They are, to put it diplomatically, traditional people. And surprisingly intolerant of other immigrants.

In the real world, you don't "trade" ability points. I was relatively sharp back when I was a scrawny child, I didn't trade in my intellect points to start playing sports and become large. I may have lost a point from blows to the head, but nothing too significant.

[Part-Time Jesus]

I'm not immature enough that I'm going to take the OP's comment out of context.

OP, you make a fair point. I'm a card carrying Dem/Lefty, I don't even know if that matters, but as much as I'm personally always on the look-out for equality, coupled with the fact I'm a long time RPG player, CAPPED by the fact Lae'zel and Karlach are BY FAR my tanks and massive damage dealers...

I don't think too deeply about it all, but....he's almost got a point, IMO.

I'm a huge BG1/2, Icewind Dale 1/2 D&D player. I've seen all the games come and go and loved em.

He's got a potential point that the big, buff, mega-large brutish Barbarian male who wrecks s**t is definitely out of the picture.

In fact, isn't the big male Druid gay? Which is ok, don't attack me. But I thout I read that he was.

OP has a point of sorts, ultimately.

EDIT: I should clarify, I'm only speaking to how the characters I've met in the game are portrayed and statted and how they fit in to a veteran video-D&D player like myself's usual party configuration

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Jojo:

I'm not immature enough that I'm going to take the OP's comment out of context.

OP, you make a fair point. I'm a card carrying Dem/Lefty, I don't even know if that matters, but as much as I'm personally always on the look-out for equality, coupled with the fact I'm a long time RPG player, CAPPED by the fact Lae'zel and Karlach are BY FAR my tanks and massive damage dealers...

I don't think too deeply about it all, but....he's almost got a point, IMO.

I'm a huge BG1/2, Icewind Dale 1/2 D&D player. I've seen all the games come and go and loved em.

He's got a potential point that the big, buff, mega-large brutish Barbarian male who wrecks s**t is definitely out of the picture.

In fact, isn't the big male Druid gay? Which is ok, don't attack me. But I thout I read that he was.

OP has a point of sorts, ultimately.

If stats is all you go by, then you also need consider the high STR females should be considered stupid and ugly...

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

Originally posted by Ruffio:

You would be surprised by who I know and doesn't. But I just realized... you clearly a high STR character, but you suffer from low INT and WIS, so discuss with someone that doesn't seem to see the difference betwee the real world and high fantasy, and who in the fantasy world someone who might not be able to tie his own shoelaces without help. But don't despair, you would be good to carry stuff around.. a good mule -)

About 50k+ Ukraine refugees over here. My county have an asylum center, and several families have settled here. And thus the local community have interaction with them. Me included.

I wouldn't be surprised, because you clearly know none. I love my Eastern European friends, but they definitely aren't the most "progressive" bunch, even after being in the UK for a long time where that sort of thing is encouraged. They are, to put it diplomatically, traditional people. And surprisingly intolerant of other immigrants.

In the real world, you don't "trade" ability points. I was relatively sharp back when I was a scrawny child, I didn't trade in my intellect points to start playing sports and become large. I may have lost a point from blows to the head, but nothing too significant.

Who cares about the real world?, you mix them up as you please so I refer to you as in the fantasy world. a silly brute... -)

You not exactly the poster boy of progressive yourself.

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Jojo:

I'm not immature enough that I'm going to take the OP's comment out of context.

OP, you make a fair point. I'm a card carrying Dem/Lefty, I don't even know if that matters, but as much as I'm personally always on the look-out for equality, coupled with the fact I'm a long time RPG player, CAPPED by the fact Lae'zel and Karlach are BY FAR my tanks and massive damage dealers...

I don't think too deeply about it all, but....he's almost got a point, IMO.

I'm a huge BG1/2, Icewind Dale 1/2 D&D player. I've seen all the games come and go and loved em.

He's got a potential point that the big, buff, mega-large brutish Barbarian male who wrecks s**t is definitely out of the picture.

In fact, isn't the big male Druid gay? Which is ok, don't attack me. But I thout I read that he was.

OP has a point of sorts, ultimately.

What kind of, sort of point maybe not point are you not maybe not agreeing with? What part do you not maybe kind of not agree with?

I don't mean this personally in anyway but you can see in real time the ideological syntax errors you brain goes though to kind of not agree with something against the program.