Has the "Strong-Woman" trope run its course?

[srfrogg23]

Most of the warriors and melee characters are females while the spell casters and rogues are males. Ok, so most of the entertainment industry for male-oriented products these days has jumped on that bandwagon under the false pretense that they're doing something "new" and "different", or whatever. It's fine, I bought the game anyway and I'm enjoying it, but am I really the only one whose finding this trend to be pretty tiresome?

Why is the idea of women dying on the front-lines of combat so popular in today's entertainment industry? What kind of school did the writers go to where all of the jocks in their school were girls and the guys just sat around in the background? In what world are women the most brutal and violent gender while males are the passive intellectuals?

I personally don't find the "warrior woman" archetype to be intimidating like I would expect an axe-wielding barbarian or heavily armored knight to be. Take Karlach for example. Super bubbly. Pretty nice chick. I'd have a few beers with her. But, I just don't see her as being a "badass". She seems more like a Pick Me girl than anything else, really. Lae'zel seems worse. Scrawny. Generally cranky, but not particularly scary, either.

I think Orin might be the only female character in the game that I legitimately find intimidating. Not because she's brutishly strong, but because she's got that psycho-Harley Quinn thing going. She's a few sandwiches short of a picnic, if you know what I mean.

So, of course, melee combat, the thing that guys have historically been thrown on the frontlines to do is now reserved for women, so instead the males now sneak around or fling spells from the back while women half their size are expected to do all the fighting. I know it's a fantasy world, but there's really only so much I can do to suspend disbelief. What kinds of guys would be like, "hey you with the ovaries, yeah, you go first and get hit in the face with an axe while I hide behind you".

All in all, I think it would be refreshing to see the entertainment industry create characters and scenarios that are more reflective of the world we live in today.

[kakita tatsumaru]

Originally posted by srfrogg23:

Most of the warriors and melee characters are females while the spell casters and rogues are males. Ok, so most of the entertainment industry for male-oriented products these days has jumped on that bandwagon under the false pretense that they're doing something "new" and "different", or whatever. It's fine, I bought the game anyway and I'm enjoying it, but am I really the only one whose finding this trend to be pretty tiresome?

Why is the idea of women dying on the front-lines of combat so popular in today's entertainment industry? What kind of school did the writers go to where all of the jocks in their school were girls and the guys just sat around in the background? In what world are women the most brutal and violent gender while males are the passive intellectuals?

I personally don't find the "warrior woman" archetype to be intimidating like I would expect an axe-wielding barbarian or heavily armored knight to be. Take Karlach for example. Super bubbly. Pretty nice chick. I'd have a few beers with her. But, I just don't see her as being a "badass". She seems more like a Pick Me girl than anything else, really. Lae'zel seems worse. Scrawny. Generally cranky, but not particularly scary, either.

I think Orin might be the only female character in the game that I legitimately find intimidating. Not because she's brutishly strong, but because she's got that psycho-Harley Quinn thing going. She's a few sandwiches short of a picnic, if you know what I mean.

So, of course, melee combat, the thing that guys have historically been thrown on the frontlines to do is now reserved for women, so instead the males now sneak around or fling spells from the back while women half their size are expected to do all the fighting. I know it's a fantasy world, but there's really only so much I can do to suspend disbelief. What kinds of guys would be like, "hey you with the ovaries, yeah, you go first and get hit in the face with an axe while I hide behind you".

All in all, I think it would be refreshing to see the entertainment industry create characters and scenarios that are more reflective of the world we live in today.

Just my two cents: I'm totally against the woke bandwagon and even often boycott quite a lot of things because of it, but I didn't even saw what you are talking about in the game, the reason probably being that I don't have the same perception of classes "virility" as yourself. Imho, besides the barbarian the most ruthless class RP wise is clearly the Warlock, and Wyll is a male, so I don't see the problem as you did at all, not even speaking about the villains where the warrior ones a still more often males.

Perhaps I would have had more of a problem if immersion if the setting has been changed to make it women centric, but that's not the case at all.

Just sorry I could at least try to seduce way more girls, as all the games shortstacks are out of the party, but well, that's a minor concern.

[Argonaut]

Originally posted by The Strand:

Fantasy is literal escapism - be anything do anything. There is magic, there are fantastical creatures of all sizes, creeds and colours, different dimensions, real gods etc. But the thing your tiny brain can't cope with are strong female characters? But hey its an RPG you can be a misogynist ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ there too if you want - isn't it great?

Escapism doesn't mean be anything or do anything and neither does fantasy. Every fantasy has its own internal logic and set of rules and checks and balances. Your tiny brain wants fantasy to mirror reality except where mirroring reality offends your senses? But hey you can be a hypocritical ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ there too if you want - isn't it great?

[O5]

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Originally posted by The Strand:

Fantasy is literal escapism - be anything do anything. There is magic, there are fantastical creatures of all sizes, creeds and colours, different dimensions, real gods etc. But the thing your tiny brain can't cope with are strong female characters? But hey its an RPG you can be a misogynist ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ there too if you want - isn't it great?

Escapism doesn't mean be anything or do anything and neither does fantasy. Every fantasy has its own internal logic and set of rules and checks and balances. Your tiny brain wants fantasy to mirror reality except where mirroring reality offends your senses? But hey you can be a hypocritical ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ there too if you want - isn't it great?

You say that but are you sure it’s not just you trying to hide with the fact that you really want a strong woman to peg you

[IndridCold]

I'm just glad we are given options to do as we like.

On the other hand I do get the strong feeling that the writers definitely have biases and sometimes they show quite a bit.

If the only 'woke' element that stuck out to me was women 'coincidentally' being physically stronger and more imposing than men(more health, more strength, more aggresive playstyle just by the grace of being a barbarian or fighter) I'd probably not be replying to this thread at all.

Not one specific feature of a story makes something automatically woke. Having a female or gay protagonist does not automatically make a story woke and the same goes for... well, anything that might coincidentally align with current political views of the authors in question. But that's just the thing...

The sum of 'woke' elements, their presentation as well as the current zeitgeist is what defines these features and facets of a story, be it in book form or video or video game form, is what ultimately makes the whole product woke.

Take for example the exploration of the refugee crisis situation, it happens not once in BG3 but twice... and each time the game clearly tries to portray the refugees as poor victims and those who wish to bar them entry as clearly evil and in the wrong, albeit you are free to side with them and outright murder all the Tieflings or chase them out(and forfeit a huge amount of content along with some companions). I don't get the vibe the writers were very neutral about defining the argument of each side at all. Of course on the other hand the game is already chalk full of choices and consequences and perhaps trying to include every possible outcome under the sun is an unrealistic expectation to begin with.

Anyway modern media does seem lacking in men who represent the more classic type of masculinity as of late. Men like Luke, Aragorn, Iron Man, Conan the Barbarian. Men that are strong, resourceful as well as intelligent. So yeah, that does kind of disqualify Minsc in my view, he's a goofball.

While BG3 does not exactly go out of its way to make fools out of men by putting them down to elevate female characters like Captain Marvel or whatever it remains at best rather neutral.

All the men are some sort of misfits... same could be said for the female companions but compare this to the Suicide Squad movies for example that had far more 'classic' masculine representation despite everyone being some sort of a misfit destined to die(just as we are due to the tadpoles).

Everyone likes to bring up Wyll as an example, yeah okay, he's literally held on a leash by a far more powerful woman on whose teat he's meant to suckle in order to keep his powers but perhaps I am reading too much into it. If I had to pick the most 'masculine' companion I'd probably go with Halsin because he's... well, he looks big I guess and he is a leader despite choosing to abandon his position to follow you in order to do away with the Shadow Curse.

Other than that my favourite male character has to be Ketheric Thorm, classic Byronic antihero. I liked Gortash as well, actually, he seemed to have a certain code of honour as long as you proved worthy of his respect.

Astarion is nowhere near your classic male hero. He seems to loosely fall into the same stereotype as Wesley from Princess Bride(another great male protagonist imo) but he does not have that... energy at all. The only energy I ever get from Astarion is 'Yass kween' whenever you do something evil or mischevious.

And don't get me started on Cazador. Here I thought Astarion sounded as gay as it gets in a medieval inspired fantasy universe but no. All that build up and the guy sounds the very opposite of intimidating. You might as well have had Arabella turn villain and she'd still be more imposing than Cazador.

At least Raphael lived up to his name as a fairly imposing and scheming devil despite being literally gay for himself.

[O5]

Originally posted by Exarch_Alpha:

Originally posted by GilltyPleasure:

woemn are hot imo

Futanari is your solution.

And it´s not gay if the balls don´t touch. Really basic konwledge pal.

Your ignorance is showing hahaha. Futanari do not traditionally have balls!

[Haru]

The most 'woke' thing I saw in this entire game was a clearly female halfling in the newspaper building with a goatee. Surprised she didn't have purple hair too.

[Argonaut]

Originally posted by うろつき:

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Escapism doesn't mean be anything or do anything and neither does fantasy. Every fantasy has its own internal logic and set of rules and checks and balances. Your tiny brain wants fantasy to mirror reality except where mirroring reality offends your senses? But hey you can be a hypocritical ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ there too if you want - isn't it great?

You say that but are you sure it’s not just you trying to hide with the fact that you really want a strong woman to peg you

Well I'm not a touch-starved gremlin with a pornography addiction so no. I have a strong woman in my life but she isn't a caricature or a degenerate.

[O5]

Originally posted by Argonaut:

Originally posted by うろつき:

You say that but are you sure it’s not just you trying to hide with the fact that you really want a strong woman to peg you

Well I'm not a touch-starved gremlin with a pornography addiction so no. I have a strong woman in my life but she isn't a caricature or a degenerate.

Dude no need to get so defensive I don’t care about what you like, I’m into weird ♥♥♥♥ myself, in fact the stuff I’m into are borderline paraphilias. And by “borderline” I mean that it is

[NorfolkDave]

Just seen that the op is banned. Perhaps this is a topic that is not ok to discuss on steam. Backing out of it myself. (and lets face it the topic has strayed drastically)

[Pimpin Pippin]

Making the person annoying, loud, obnoxious, overbearing and bulky like a steroid abuser does not make that character "strong".
Quite the opposite.

[revenant_k]

Here on Steam, you either go along with the Woke agenda or you will be banned. End of story.

[EnigmaBeaver™]

Originally posted by revenant_k:

Here in Steam, you either go along with the Woke agenda or you will be banned. End of story.

You get banned because you went against the TOS and stuff. but it's always nice to see the idiots be cleansed from Steam.

[wagg40k]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Well good news, Baldur's Gate 3 portrays men as quite competent without being sexual predators.

Look up the literary trope "the rake" and then come back to us. Gale (especially), Halsin, and Astarion are all sexual predators. this trope goes all the way back to medieval drama.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by wagg40k:

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Well good news, Baldur's Gate 3 portrays men as quite competent without being sexual predators.

Look up the literary trope "the rake" and then come back to us. Gale (especially), Halsin, and Astarion are all sexual predators. this trope goes all the way back to medieval drama.

Calling Astarion of all people a sexual predator shows you probably didn't play the game.

[barrybarrington90]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by wagg40k:

Look up the literary trope "the rake" and then come back to us. Gale (especially), Halsin, and Astarion are all sexual predators. this trope goes all the way back to medieval drama.

Calling Astarion of all people a sexual predator shows you probably didn't play the game.

Another contrary comment that wasn't thought through past the knee-jerk reflex to disagree.

Victims of sexual abuse are in fact far, far more likely to become abusers themselves. That's criminology 101.

Which would be completely in line with Astarion's cruel streak coming entirely from being abused, too, which is intentional. We're supposed to see him as a victim lashing out at the world. The expression "♥♥♥♥ rolls downhill" comes to mind.