Has the "Strong-Woman" trope run its course?

[srfrogg23]

Most of the warriors and melee characters are females while the spell casters and rogues are males. Ok, so most of the entertainment industry for male-oriented products these days has jumped on that bandwagon under the false pretense that they're doing something "new" and "different", or whatever. It's fine, I bought the game anyway and I'm enjoying it, but am I really the only one whose finding this trend to be pretty tiresome?

Why is the idea of women dying on the front-lines of combat so popular in today's entertainment industry? What kind of school did the writers go to where all of the jocks in their school were girls and the guys just sat around in the background? In what world are women the most brutal and violent gender while males are the passive intellectuals?

I personally don't find the "warrior woman" archetype to be intimidating like I would expect an axe-wielding barbarian or heavily armored knight to be. Take Karlach for example. Super bubbly. Pretty nice chick. I'd have a few beers with her. But, I just don't see her as being a "badass". She seems more like a Pick Me girl than anything else, really. Lae'zel seems worse. Scrawny. Generally cranky, but not particularly scary, either.

I think Orin might be the only female character in the game that I legitimately find intimidating. Not because she's brutishly strong, but because she's got that psycho-Harley Quinn thing going. She's a few sandwiches short of a picnic, if you know what I mean.

So, of course, melee combat, the thing that guys have historically been thrown on the frontlines to do is now reserved for women, so instead the males now sneak around or fling spells from the back while women half their size are expected to do all the fighting. I know it's a fantasy world, but there's really only so much I can do to suspend disbelief. What kinds of guys would be like, "hey you with the ovaries, yeah, you go first and get hit in the face with an axe while I hide behind you".

All in all, I think it would be refreshing to see the entertainment industry create characters and scenarios that are more reflective of the world we live in today.

[nobalkain]

DaniTheHero původně napsal:

WildOrchid původně napsal:

What would be the ideal world for you? Just asking.

That's not a question I can or want to answer.
But regarding entertainment? The late 2000's, early 2010's seem like the best sweet spot. The way things were in 2008 - 2012 I guess?

Yeah that was the time I felt we had hit the Center of the Pendulum. I was actually rather shocked how quickly everything seemed to go from there. I know it had been taking place for awhile, but unless you where watching for it, or being effected by it, it just seemed to smack you in the Face. Just plain Societal Insanity is the only way I can see it.

[revenant_k]

DAO is quite woke with all the gay/leb stuff, but at least they care to give an explanation for those contents. And NPCs will reach differently to player's gender. Now, they don't even care anymore. Rare exceptions have become the norm.

[DaniTheHero]

Quillithe původně napsal:

DaniTheHero původně napsal:

Dark time for gaming? What are you on about? It was the years of back to back classics, that at the time of release were practically must plays.

Dark Souls 1 , Modern Warfare 1 and 2, Oblivion and Skyrim, Hitman Blood money, Splinter Cell Double Agent, Saintrows 2, Bioshock , Mass Effect 1 and 2, Dragon Age Origins, Assassins Creed 1 and the Ezio Trilogy, GTA 4, DeadSpace, FarCry 2, Fable 2 and 3, Fallout 3 and New Vegas, Left 4 Dead 1 and 2, Battlefield Bad Company 2, Red Dead Redemption, Portal 2 and many more that I may have missed.

Literal golden age of gaming.

I guess if you like console military shooters and not strategy games, RPGs, and immersive sims.

The best stuff in your list is bad System Shock 2, bad BG2, bad Fallout (okay not NV), bad Morrowind. And portal 2 and Dark Souls near the very end of that period.

The fact that the stuff there i thought was good was pretty much just worse than earlier games is a bad sign.

Dark Souls was a big hit because games had gotten so terrible and blandly easy.

Did you just call Dragon Age Origins, bad? :|

[srfrogg23]

Ruffio původně napsal:

srfrogg23 původně napsal:

Sure, cultures tend to shift over time, but I really think a lot of what we're seeing in modern entertainment is less of a reflection of our actual culture and more of an expression of some small percentage of people's desire to make money by pandering to idealists on social media. Making the lead characters all women doesn't suddenly make women want to watch the Lord of the Rings spinoffs or play more hardcore DnD based strategy RPGs. That's just not how people work.

Just as an example, the trend of all-female reboots and shows like The Witcher, The Rings of Power, and Willow all failed miserably to capture an audience because they are IPs that have historically appealed to men, but all of the main characters and plot lines were infused with 3rd wave feminist ideals about strong independent women in power, so they failed to capture either male or female audiences. The shows simply didn't appeal to anyone.

On the flip-side, movies like John Wick, Top Gun Maverick, and Barbie all ended up doing extremely well because men still enjoy watching action movies with strong male leads and gratuitous violence and women still enjoy watching romantic comedies. Men and women still have different tastes in entertainment.

People in the entertainment industry really need to understand that no amount of guilt-tripping or name-calling potential customers is going to make people buy the products. Calling people sexist, homophobic, racist, etc. doesn't change the culture, it just annoys customers to the point that they seek their entertainment elsewhere.

People will consume the entertainment they want to consume. If someone create movies, games, music, books WHATEVER pushing a narrative/agenda that people doesn't like they won't invest into. They set themselves up to fail. It doesn't matter who star, lead or peform if the material is bad. You can fine have a gay, lesbian, trans whatever lead, as long as the work itself is good/fun whatever. How about Robin Williams as Mrs Doubfire? Oh man that so woke?

These days people slap "oh its woke, that's why it's bad".... no, it's bad because it's bad.... Should we consider Mad Max Fury Road woke because it picture Charlize Theron as a strong woman? Did guy's not go watch like Black Widow beause female lead?

Did anyone start ♥♥♥♥♥ about "this is so woke", when Lara Croft became a thing in games back in the day? Must be woke because was a female character right? No. they didn't. That character didn't roll high on STR either btw...

Does guys like action flicks more than romance one, and other way with females? Sure, but it doesn't exclude either to like both. I seen so many bad action movies over the years, surly outnumber good ones, and majority of them stared by guys. So can't really blame them being bad because woke right?

My take is bad is bad, because its bad... -) If the industry want to make bank they need to give people what they want. If we look at BG3 and Larian.... well they made bank so far.

I think the difference is that those characters were a novelty at the time they came out. They're a dime a dozen now, though. And, you're right, they were very well done and the examples I gave were just bad shows.

It does seem like the whole "strong woman" trope has massively over saturated the market to the point being lazy and formulaic. It has gotten to the point where studios put the bare minimum of talent and effort into the product because they think they can just guilt trip people into buying the product by screaming about sexism.

BG3 is a good game for the most part, but it's got a lot of cringe in it, too. Luckily for Larian, they nailed the gameplay aspect and there was enough good writing to make it worthwhile to play all the way through and recommend on Steam.

[WildOrchid]

revenant_k původně napsal:

DAO is quite woke with all the gay/leb stuff, but at least they care to give an explanation for those contents. And NPCs will reach differently to player's gender. Now, they don't even care anymore. Rare exceptions have become the norm.

On the topic of gay stuff, why are you so against people who want to romance others of the same sex? Don't I deserve to romance a nice lady with a lady?

[Moroza]

"What kind of school did the writers go to where all of the jocks in their school were girls and the guys just sat around in the background?"

And that line tells me all I need to know.
Women are not background characters in men's life.

[DaniTheHero]

Moroza původně napsal:

"What kind of school did the writers go to where all of the jocks in their school were girls and the guys just sat around in the background?"

And that line tells me all I need to know.
Women are not background characters in men's life.

Hahahaha. It's clearly not at all what he meant or even implied.

He was quite clearly critiquing the fact that every single Strength based companion (Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin) are females, and that this was no accident but an intentional choice.

[Kalona]

I mean. Karlach can pick me up and throw me over her shoulder and i'll be happy as a pupper. I'll also have to point out that even through she is thicc and strong she's still got more than enough tender and vulnerable moments. So i'd say they did a fantastic job with balancing her strong woman role. The way she stumbles around with her words and give off that fist pumped "yes!" was beyond adorable.

Truly there is no besting this best girl.

[srfrogg23]

Kalona původně napsal:

I mean. Karlach can pick me up and throw me over her shoulder and i'll be happy as a pupper. I'll also have to point out that even through she is thicc and strong she's still got more than enough tender and vulnerable moments. So i'd say they did a fantastic job with balancing her strong woman role. The way she stumbles around with her words and give off that fist pumped "yes!" was beyond adorable.

Truly there is no besting this best girl.

I can't agree. Karlach was written like an edgy 14 year old boy. So obnoxious.

[srfrogg23]

nobalkain původně napsal:

srfrogg23 původně napsal:

Homosexuals actually can breed thanks to sperm banks and surrogacy, so the original assertion technically isn't even correct.

Not really due to it not being a "Trait" that can be passed on. Sure you can pass on your Genes, but not your Sexual Preferences. At lest not until we figure out how to actually Modify our Code to actually Pass it on. Now why anyone would WANT to pass to your Decedents the Desire to NOT pass on your DNA is beyond me, but hey thats what they claim is "Progress".

Not every child born to heterosexuals is straight. Having children is far more than just passing on our sexual preferences.

[WildOrchid]

MewTressym původně napsal:

revenant_k původně napsal:

It may be hard for you to understand, but ho mo won't breed.

Pretty sure there's not a single person who doesn't understand that. :P

I'm of the opinion that a lot of people who are currently breeding shouldn't probably be doing so, but, here we are. Just remember it's the breeders who will one day try to water crops with gatorade.

We are so many (as humans, not gays before anyone starts panicking) and yet some people for some reason think humanity will go extinct or something. Gays aren't the threat here. Starvation and wars on the other hand.... Or an asteroid decides to hit us one day.

The VAST majority is straight as it always was and it will remain that way for years to come, that's for sure. It's not a cause for concern, whatever those... social media sites tell you otherwise.

MewTressym původně napsal:

Edit: Oh, they got a ban for that one it looks like.

I was wondering where my post went, oh well.

[MewTressym]

srfrogg23 původně napsal:

Homosexuals actually can breed thanks to sperm banks and surrogacy, so the original assertion technically isn't even correct.

So this comes up pretty often, some consider this to be cheating, some reluctantly accept it, and others whole heartily embrace the options.

As to whether it counts given the context of the persons statement, I think it really depends on how we choose to consider it and I'm going to assume they meant "breed with one another". Sperm banks I would not consider to be in the spirit of the statement as they obviously intended it. Surrogacy I'm not sure how far along advanced the tech is but last I was aware it was still a biological males sperm and a biological womans egg in the initial process. If we've gotten to the point of gene splicing two people of the same gender to produce a viable egg/sperm combo then awesome.

It is inevitable that we perfect gene splicing, artificial wombs, etc. So it's honestly a mute point anyways. Provided we don't nuke ourselves off the planet first.

[Ruffio]

srfrogg23 původně napsal:

nobalkain původně napsal:

Not really due to it not being a "Trait" that can be passed on. Sure you can pass on your Genes, but not your Sexual Preferences. At lest not until we figure out how to actually Modify our Code to actually Pass it on. Now why anyone would WANT to pass to your Decedents the Desire to NOT pass on your DNA is beyond me, but hey thats what they claim is "Progress".

Not every child born to heterosexuals is straight. Having children is far more than just passing on our sexual preferences.

What you get attracted to can't get taught. Just as with fetishes and desires else.

[Orion Invictus]

Kalona původně napsal:

I mean. Karlach can pick me up and throw me over her shoulder and i'll be happy as a pupper. I'll also have to point out that even through she is thicc and strong she's still got more than enough tender and vulnerable moments. So i'd say they did a fantastic job with balancing her strong woman role. The way she stumbles around with her words and give off that fist pumped "yes!" was beyond adorable.

Truly there is no besting this best girl.

Being carried like that isn't my thing, but I agree with everything else. She's the best girl.

[WildOrchid]

Kalona původně napsal:

I mean. Karlach can pick me up and throw me over her shoulder and i'll be happy as a pupper. I'll also have to point out that even through she is thicc and strong she's still got more than enough tender and vulnerable moments. So i'd say they did a fantastic job with balancing her strong woman role. The way she stumbles around with her words and give off that fist pumped "yes!" was beyond adorable.

Truly there is no besting this best girl.

Yup she has a lot of feminine traits and I love it. She's not your 'me woman better than any man on Faerun' type.