Build Advice - Rogue/Ranger

[The1Kobra]

So, I was looking into builds for a character. Admittedly, it's worked quite well so far, and is similar to what i made for Astarion.

So far, my MC is a sylvan elf 3/5 Rogue(Thief)/Ranger(Hunter). Stats: 12/16/14/8/16/8. +2 DEX at Ranger 4. So far the build is quite nice. Proficient in 11 skills, 4 attacks per round standard on hand crossbows, decent defense from the high DEX, and damage is pretty good from sneak attacks and colossus slayer's +1d8. And a bit of casting (Only 3 CLs, though)

My only issue is where to go from here. I've thought of a few permutations.

My first and initial plan was: 3/8/1 Rogue/Ranger/Monk. Except, that doesn't really seem to get me much. I checked the Ranger benefits and I don't really get that many from the extra levels. +1 CL, but from 3 to 4 isn't that much.
Monk as well, doesn't work so well. WIS AC might sound nice but unless I get the WIS higher, it's better to just wear the magic armors that are available. And a lot of the features don't work unless the user is unarmored. (Unless dipping a level means 2 of those bonus actions can be made to unarmed attacks in melee)
I had also considered 7/5 Rogue/Ranger. It's not bad, and what I had for Astarion's build. 4d6 sneak attack, more damage. Not bad. It'll also give me 2 more skills with expertise, which is always nice for those skills I'm using a lot of.
I could always dip a fighter level. 1 More combat style. I do a lot of hand crossbow shooting so having the archery style in addition to the defense style is good for both offense and defense.
The other option would be to go for 4 levels in a caster class. It'd give this build 7 CLs, but no spells above 2nd level. Still, it could be useful for additional support or healing.
Cleric with life domain could provide a nice deal of healing. Not sure druid would get as much. I could also go wizard (and use the headband for 17 INT), and get some nice utility spells, especially shield.
So, does anyone have any suggestions? I'm admittedly still working the combinations.

[Arkan]

Why do you want rogue/ranger MC and which subclasses do you want to take? Gloomstalker/assasin classic for ranged or something else? Personally i switched from GS7/AS3 ranged 2h build to Sword Bard7/Thief Rogue3 ranged/melee build for sheer versatility, utility and fun dialogue options.

I'm still at the end of act 2 and these builds are far from finished but they provide pretty different combat style while both are good in ranged combat. Bard obviously gets his second action one level later than ranger but it is irrelevant now.

GS/AS deals crazy damage if you start combat youself and loses its edge if combat is forced on you and after 1st turn, becoming rather generic ranged attacker. Sword bard/Thief deals a bit less damage at first but is much more consistent and has a ton of additional utility. With blindness immunity ring and some darkness cover from my casters or self-cast improved invis i can shred anything in melee or deliver enough ranged hurt with flourishes, dealing 6 hits at first turn without haste.

For stats i went 17 dex 16 char and dumped all else except Con.

[Gloomseeker]

Two levels of Circle of Spore Druid. The spore ability works with ranged attacks. That's +1d6 on each attack.

With two levels left you can round up Thief to level 4 to unlock a feat or pick two Cleric levels considering your character's Wisdom (the Knowledge Domain can make passing skill checks a breeze).

Wizard 2 to unlock Portent as a Divination Wizard is awesome whatever build you may be playing.

[The1Kobra]

Well, sylvan elf Rogue/Ranger for the main character gets a LOT of skills. 2 from race, 2 from background, 4 from rogue, then 3 from the ranger dip (base skill, urban tracker, and one gives arcana). Given how many skill checks the main character has to make, that's one thing.
I went thief instead of assassin because of the extra bonus action. Extra offhand attack from a hand crossbow. Hunter Ranger for the extra 1d8 damage.
Hrm, I can look into spore druid. Halo of Spores lasts until you rest, right? Or until you lose the temporary HP from the ability.
Knowledge domain is an interesting idea though. I'll also look into Portent, maybe come up with some options.

[Gloomseeker]

It's actually Symbiotic Entity and iirc it lasts until you rest or lose the extra hitpoints.

Halo of Spores uses the reaction for damage which is nice (more damage is always a good thing).

Considering your character's Wisdom that would be my pick.

Skill wise it's true that your character should already have plenty so that's another argument in favour of the Wizard (Portent is awesome).

It doesn't really suit your stats but Sword Bard gets some pretty fancy options with ranged flourishes at level 3.

[The1Kobra]

Is monk worth dipping into at all? I'll admit of the monk mechanics, I'm not sure how they work exactly.
From what I understand, I could use the 2 bonus actions for extra unarmed attacks? But only if I go without armor/shield? Which would cost me some AC doing that.
Is there anything else I'd get from dipping monk?I had considered dipping 1 for the unarmored AC bonus but it seems not worth it unless I get my WIS up considerably higher.

[Mork]

+2 fighter for action surge ( or +3 for champion or battle master)
+1 thief for feat

[jonnin]

Originally posted by The1Kobra:

Is monk worth dipping into at all? I'll admit of the monk mechanics, I'm not sure how they work exactly.
From what I understand, I could use the 2 bonus actions for extra unarmed attacks? But only if I go without armor/shield? Which would cost me some AC doing that.
Is there anything else I'd get from dipping monk?I had considered dipping 1 for the unarmored AC bonus but it seems not worth it unless I get my WIS up considerably higher.

the unarmed attacks work best if you can slip in the tavern brawler feat. Otherwise, its not as good as dual wielding and using the offhand to just stab something which anyone can do -- you quickly find weapons better than the monk's fist will be if you only 'dip'. TB feat adds your str bonus TWICE to HIT and damage. That is a 16 str monk has +6 to punch and +6 damage on punches. That works pretty well. A dip monk hybrid dip is no better than a dual wielded short sword in the offhand, though.

monks also get a resource driven ability to hit 2x with their punches but with a dip its just a couple times per rest. A high level monk, sure, you can punch some guy 6 or so times per round for the whole fight, doing 70+ damage per round midgame. But here again, it just isnt all that for a dip. The dip is looking at giving up levels in something to get the monk level(s), a feat (TB) to support it, STR stat to support that, ... its a lot of moving parts to fit into a splash build.

monk ac with +2 armor bracers is 18, and if you dual classed your shield pulls a respectable 20. Its enough, but its not all that... and act 2 or late act 1 armor starts to have more benefits than just AC, like 'cant be crit' so the nekkid AC toy becomes about worthless. The itemization on non-armor pieces is severely lacking for casters and monks alike.

on the ranger rogue...
archery style, hand xbows, and sharpshooter with 20 dex will let you overcome the penalty to hit and land hard hitting shots constantly. By ranger 5 you have 4 shots, easily 60+ damage per round.
Consider beast ranger: your pet gets you threatened status for sneak attacks, and your pet will do as much or more damage than a d8 from the once a turn d8 on injured enemy. The spider can aoe set things on fire with web (drop it on a fire source or light it up yourself), or use it for the terrain slow. Its not much damage, but once you have an aoe fire you can throw oil barrels etc onto that as well.

if you want to melee ranger/rogue instead, its different. Its tricky to do both melee and hand xbow builds at once on the same toon before higher levels... you have to give up something to get dual wield feats, and archery really NEEDs both archery style AND sharpshooter. The best way to do it is fighter instead of ranger, to get the extra feat at level 6, but that loses you the spells and pet. Hunters mark can be had outside of your spells, later on.

[Gloomseeker]

I think it's a mistake to invest in dual wielding melee weapons with this setup because you can use a shield, attack with your melee weapon and still use the off hand crossbow for bonus actions.

I'm not sure a Monk level brings enough to the table.

[The1Kobra]

Yeah, my current build is using a sword/shield, took the defense combat style for another point of AC, and I've got dual hand crossbows. Offhand melee weapon doesn't get the DEX bonus to damage either. Hand crossbows for some reason do.
Monk could in theory let me do bonus attacks with unarmed if I'm jammed into melee. The issue is I don't think I'm supposed to be able to do that unless I ditch both the light armor AND the shield.
(Pretty sure monk unarmored defense won't work with a shield equipped).

[guard65]

Also running a Gloomstalker/Assasin. Only 3 levels of Rogue required and the rest is Ranger.

[MacKot۞]

You, just use not best multiclasses, for hunter you don't need more levels, you pick thief for 2 bonus actions, becouse you are using DEX build best utility for them be more rogue levels and double hand crossbow, or one level in monk class unarmed stikes plus 3 champion levels for 19 crits + action surge. I don't know did you one hero walkthrough or not.
I has some build guides btw if you intrested

[Gloomseeker]

Originally posted by The1Kobra:

Yeah, my current build is using a sword/shield, took the defense combat style for another point of AC, and I've got dual hand crossbows. Offhand melee weapon doesn't get the DEX bonus to damage either. Hand crossbows for some reason do.
Monk could in theory let me do bonus attacks with unarmed if I'm jammed into melee. The issue is I don't think I'm supposed to be able to do that unless I ditch both the light armor AND the shield.
(Pretty sure monk unarmored defense won't work with a shield equipped).

Barbarian's CON to AC works with a shield but Monk's WIS to AC doesn't.

Unless I'm mistaken you could still get by with an armoured Monk but that one is rather hard to justify RPwise IMHO (not that it can't be done).

I would have picked Archery instead since adding two points to attacks is huge (that's like 4 DEX points for the purpose of landing a ranged attack whereas the AC is the equivalent of just 2 points) and it helps mitigate Sharpshooter (which may be a bit overkill).

See Dual Wielding hand crossbows doesn't require the fighting style to add DEX bonus to damage whereas you need it for melee weapons.

If your guy ends up stuck in melee you can still use the bonus actions as attacks and score hits despite the penalty. I'm not sure I would bother with Monk levels just to be able to land unarmed attacks in such a scenario.

I mean if want to go that way then you should probably go for a less specialised build (it's possible to take advantage of hand crossbows with a full caster for instance who would have plenty of options for defence and crowd control).

[MacKot۞]

My ranger solo walkthrough was 7 Gloomstalker / 5 The Great Old One, bonus action hide, 3 atacks, + 1 extra atacks which deals +1d8 first turn, profiency in 4 savethrows, decent amount of AC/HP

[MacKot۞]

Also not forgot about gith creche there you can get ring which add 1-6 psy damage to you atacks while you concentrating on spell, with mark it will be 2d6 to each weapon atack, +2 acid damage ring from underdark also give some boost

[guard65]

No interest in playing sheep, sheep, with build guides or kowtow to their narrow scope. Your goals are far different than mine in what I seak out of my character or how it play on my custom team of four players.

I also run Shadowheart Paladin/Sorcerer as my tank and social guru (no cleric about it). Different hair, makeup, skin, race and so forth. Who cares what the game forces on you.