Karlach vs. Wyll vs. Tyr paladins

[Leander.quest]

I don't want to side with someone I don't like...but how do you know whose "good" or evil?

Karlach says the Tyr paladins are not real ones, but evil worshippers of xy...
The Tyr followers claim Karlach is evil.
So does Wyll...

Guess I have to do without Karlach and Wyll as companions....without any knowledge on truth and stories.

[zero]

insight check with the paladins, or the automatic lore dump between wyll and karlach.

both make it obvious

[swbrandt]

Originally posted by Ackranome:

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

I hope you're trolling because if you're serious I can't help you.

How exactly are Wyll and Karlach evil? Humor me, explain it.

What is a Ravenguard but a morally weak individual with an instantiate desire to be glorified? Nobility gained it's name for the idea of being "noble" not fame-seeking. A paladin is noble. Wyll is not a paladin. He enlisted with the flaming fist and was a poor solider at best. Fezzerk and Spike may have disfigured him but rather than forgive and show mercy he desired a path of vengeance and craved power. Instead of looking inward and gaining mental fortitude he sought out external power and turned to a devil. He gives up his soul. He then bemoans his situation and regrets his decisions and tries to weasel his way out of the deal he made. In essence he is stupid, impetuous, immature, and ignorant of the gifts he had and position he was born to, and wasted his life. He is evil.

Your information is out of date. That's Wyll's old story from the EA. He's been rewritten. He's been changed a lot since then. He doesn't have any history with goblins, no vengeance quest, etc. All this post does is tell me you haven't been paying attention - if you're even playing the release version.

[Ackranome]

Originally posted by swbrandt:

Originally posted by Ackranome:

What is a Ravenguard but a morally weak individual with an instantiate desire to be glorified? Nobility gained it's name for the idea of being "noble" not fame-seeking. A paladin is noble. Wyll is not a paladin. He enlisted with the flaming fist and was a poor solider at best. Fezzerk and Spike may have disfigured him but rather than forgive and show mercy he desired a path of vengeance and craved power. Instead of looking inward and gaining mental fortitude he sought out external power and turned to a devil. He gives up his soul. He then bemoans his situation and regrets his decisions and tries to weasel his way out of the deal he made. In essence he is stupid, impetuous, immature, and ignorant of the gifts he had and position he was born to, and wasted his life. He is evil.

Your information is out of date. That's Wyll's old story from the EA. He's been rewritten. He's been changed a lot since then. He doesn't have any history with goblins, no vengeance quest, etc. All this post does is tell me you haven't been paying attention - if you're even playing the release version.

That is his story whether larian tells it correctly or not.

And we already know Larian doesn't tell stories correctly.

[swbrandt]

Originally posted by Ackranome:

Originally posted by swbrandt:

Your information is out of date. That's Wyll's old story from the EA. He's been rewritten. He's been changed a lot since then. He doesn't have any history with goblins, no vengeance quest, etc. All this post does is tell me you haven't been paying attention - if you're even playing the release version.

That is his story whether larian tells it correctly or not.

And we already know Larian doesn't tell stories correctly.

Right. The first draft of something is the definitive draft. Sure.

[Calculus]

Originally posted by Ackranome:

Originally posted by swbrandt:

Your information is out of date. That's Wyll's old story from the EA. He's been rewritten. He's been changed a lot since then. He doesn't have any history with goblins, no vengeance quest, etc. All this post does is tell me you haven't been paying attention - if you're even playing the release version.

That is his story whether larian tells it correctly or not.

And we already know Larian doesn't tell stories correctly.

As it was pointed out, it's an old story from early access, wyll story was retconned.
Short version now: He entered the pact in order to save baldurs gate, after which he was exiled and begun to hunt monsters on the sword coast earning the title of a hero. He lost hope of returning to his home and breaking the contract.

[Goilveig]

Originally posted by Leander.quest:

I know, but posing as someone is not reason enough to kill them....and I don't know who Zariel is...x claims y is evil, y claims the opposite...

Zariel is an archdevil and the ruler of Avernus, one of the layers of Hell. Evil is sort of a given.

[Ackranome]

Originally posted by swbrandt:

Originally posted by Ackranome:

That is his story whether larian tells it correctly or not.

And we already know Larian doesn't tell stories correctly.

Right. The first draft of something is the definitive draft. Sure.

The actual story.

I just had a long post with a D&D fan about whether Gale has a soul when he is a tentacle beast -- Larian ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up that entire species cultural background and the phylogenese and ontogense process.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Originally posted by Ackranome:

Originally posted by swbrandt:

Your information is out of date. That's Wyll's old story from the EA. He's been rewritten. He's been changed a lot since then. He doesn't have any history with goblins, no vengeance quest, etc. All this post does is tell me you haven't been paying attention - if you're even playing the release version.

That is his story whether larian tells it correctly or not.

And we already know Larian doesn't tell stories correctly.

You're objectively wrong. They must have rewritten it because none of that is in the game now.

His actual story is that he sold his soul in a pact with Mizora to defeat a cult of Tiamat that tried to summon her into Baldur's Gate to destroy the city. He's got no vengence, no goblin history, no desire for Glory, You're literally working off an old script.

Wyll literally dedicated his life to hunting monsters and protecting innocent people.

Karlach was sold into slavery by her employer, whom she trusted and protected, and was forced into service against her will.

I'd love to hear how being forced into slavery makes you evil.

[Ackranome]

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

Originally posted by Ackranome:

That is his story whether larian tells it correctly or not.

And we already know Larian doesn't tell stories correctly.

You're objectively wrong. They must have rewritten it because none of that is in the game now.

His actual story is that he sold his soul in a pact with Mizora to defeat a cult of Tiamat that tried to summon her into Baldur's Gate to destroy the city. He's got no vengence, no goblin history, no desire for Glory, You're literally working off an old script.

Wyll literally dedicated his life to hunting monsters and protecting innocent people.

Karlach was sold into slavery by her employer, whom she trusted and protected, and was forced into service against her will.

I'd love to hear how being forced into slavery makes you evil.

She chose her path. She was already evil. Absconding from reality doesn't make you noble.

[Za'Muro]

if u were smart enough u would have used speak with the dead skill on the corpses there to find the truth. i wont spoil it

[jennireneex]

You can pass an insight check and detect thoughts and learn they are not who they are pretending to be as well.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Originally posted by Ackranome:

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

You're objectively wrong. They must have rewritten it because none of that is in the game now.

His actual story is that he sold his soul in a pact with Mizora to defeat a cult of Tiamat that tried to summon her into Baldur's Gate to destroy the city. He's got no vengence, no goblin history, no desire for Glory, You're literally working off an old script.

Wyll literally dedicated his life to hunting monsters and protecting innocent people.

Karlach was sold into slavery by her employer, whom she trusted and protected, and was forced into service against her will.

I'd love to hear how being forced into slavery makes you evil.

She chose her path. She was already evil. Absconding from reality doesn't make you noble.

Are you high? She legit didn't chose anything. She was a body guard for a minor politician and got sold into slavery.

How exactly is she evil? How is she absconding from reality? What are you even on about? The only people she's killed are literal demons.

[Ackranome]

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

Originally posted by Ackranome:

She chose her path. She was already evil. Absconding from reality doesn't make you noble.

Are you high? She legit didn't chose anything. She was a body guard for a minor politician and got sold into slavery.

How exactly is she evil? How is she absconding from reality? What are you even on about?

Gortash is minor? LOL. Literal cornerstone of the entire story is minor.

You pick your employer.

If you want to work for Facebook/META realize you're working for Zuckerberg. Not a good person.

[Calculus]

Originally posted by Ackranome:

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

Are you high? She legit didn't chose anything. She was a body guard for a minor politician and got sold into slavery.

How exactly is she evil? How is she absconding from reality? What are you even on about?

Gortash is minor? LOL. Literal cornerstone of the entire story is minor.

And you just admitted you didn't listen to any of dialogues...
Gortash entire plot is that he jumped from a minor politian into the most important figure in the baldurs gate...

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Originally posted by Ackranome:

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy:

Are you high? She legit didn't chose anything. She was a body guard for a minor politician and got sold into slavery.

How exactly is she evil? How is she absconding from reality? What are you even on about?

Gortash is minor? LOL. Literal cornerstone of the entire story is minor.

You really didn't play the game did you?

Gortash became a major player with help from Zariel BECAUSE he sold Karlach to her...

That's literally a plot point once you hit act 2/3. Wyll even comments on it.

You legit don't even know what you're talking about. Maybe before making these ridiculously bad takes actually play the game so you don't look so ignorant.