So, is that guy Balduran or what?

[Ackranome]

Is Balduran an immortal?

[Aouregan]

Originally posted by Mizu:

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

I agree with Kaeptn Bleibaer.
They ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up the mind flayer lore.

Not suprising.
I remind you we had to tell them firebolt was not a spammable mini fireball.
And they still manage to nerf goodberry.

I honestly think a lot of choices was larians pride trying to fix D&D instead of making D&d.
And in my experiance whenever people try to fix D&D they make it worse.

Oh yeah, because WotC is totally incapable of making mistakes and putting out info that seems to contradict itself. Like how mindflayers both have no souls but are also capable of performing the act of sticking their soul in a magic jar to become liches.

The introduction of mutations that came from exposing the elder brain to the crown of Karsus and shooting ancient super magic into the tadpoles seems like a decent enough explanation for most discrepancies. And the rest of them aren't real discrepancies, they are the emperor lying its ass off pulling a con job using the dregs of a few leftover memories from its host to build a mask where they pretend to still be a person.

I played DnD before it was part of WoTC.
Mind Flayer lore was established before DnD became part of WoTC.
And all the parts I cited so far are from AD&D 2nd ed., which is not WoTC.
Illithid lore didn't change much since then, however.

Anywho, yes, if you pick Karlach to become a mind flayer, she would be dead according to DnD canon. Whatever she was is gone. A new creature is born from her body. Like a Ridley Scott Alien. It really is the best comparison to be made.

And if you now go "But Balduran was an exception."... well, then apparently also is the one you pick to become a mind flayer, since they seem to keep their soul and personality in this game, too. That's quite a bunch of exceptions all in one place. And they both are infested by different tadpoles, too.
Balduran must have become a mind flayer hundreds of years ago. These special tadpoles the player is facing where not even a horny thought in their creators nutsack at that point.

I stick to my opinion that the Guardian Illithid can not possibly, in any variant of this universe, be Balduran.

[Edstyles]

Omellum seemsto have broken hold of the grand design . He even seems to care for others i think which is very weird . I mean he still eats brain juice. I dont remember how he broke of grand design but he gives u a ring.
Also the gith prince seems to remember himself. So seems like in this game they can retain their old selves

[Aouregan]

Originally posted by Edstyles:

Omellum seemsto have broken hold of the grand design . He even seems to care for others i think which is very weird . I mean he still eats brain juice

Omellum is a mind flayer, however. He is not King George II, just looking like one. He is just Omelluum the mind flayer, and like that he fits. His goals just do not align with the general "hive mind". Rogue Illithids are a thing, but they are not their former host. His existance started when his host died, and at some point he just was like "Na,... f*ck it. I am doing my own thing." But he did that as an Illithid. He very likely has no clue who his host even was.

[Edstyles]

Originally posted by Kaeptn Bleibaer:

Originally posted by Edstyles:

Omellum seemsto have broken hold of the grand design . He even seems to care for others i think which is very weird . I mean he still eats brain juice

Omellum is a mind flayer, however. He is not King George II, just looking like one. He is just Omelluum the mind flayer, and like that he fits. His goals just do not align with the general "hive mind". Rogue Illithids are a thing, but they are not their former host.

What about the gith Prince tho . He knows who he is. I believe in this game they can remember their old selves. As both balduran and Prince show

[Aouregan]

Originally posted by Edstyles:

Originally posted by Kaeptn Bleibaer:

Omellum is a mind flayer, however. He is not King George II, just looking like one. He is just Omelluum the mind flayer, and like that he fits. His goals just do not align with the general "hive mind". Rogue Illithids are a thing, but they are not their former host.

What about the gith Prince tho . He knows who he is

If you had read my previous comments, then you would know that this exactly is the problem and that it is not how Illithids work.
I assume you did read them, yes? Or did you just chime in for the sake of it?

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by Edstyles:

Originally posted by Kaeptn Bleibaer:

Omellum is a mind flayer, however. He is not King George II, just looking like one. He is just Omelluum the mind flayer, and like that he fits. His goals just do not align with the general "hive mind". Rogue Illithids are a thing, but they are not their former host.

What about the gith Prince tho . He knows who he is. I believe in this game they can remember their old selves. As both balduran and Prince show

Yeah.
It was this that made me go.
Wait.
Did larian ♥♥♥♥ up the lore and think they are there old lives?
As others pointed out the emperor is just lying to you.

[Edstyles]

Originally posted by Kaeptn Bleibaer:

Originally posted by Edstyles:

What about the gith Prince tho . He knows who he is

If you had read my previous comments, then you would know that this exactly is the problem and that it is not how mind Illithids work.
I assume you did read them, yes? Or did you just chime in for the sake of it?

I mean i didnt quote you . You quoted me no ? XD

[Aouregan]

The thing is that rogue mind flayers always have existed. Omelluum is one of them. But he is Omelluum. He is not Bob the Baker turned mind flayer. He is 100% Illithid and he knows nothing else. His former host is dead. Omelluum doesn't suddenly love some random person, because his former host did, etc. His life started, when his host died. Whatever was before that, he doesn't know. He just has different goals than his brethren. That's all

[Aouregan]

Now we can also add the fact that the average lifespan of an Illithid is somewhere between 100 and 200 years (average 120 years). Balduran has been gone far longer than that, and he was human. A lot of stuff simply doesn't add up here.
Baldur's Gate, named after him, has existed for hundreds of years already.
I mean, even in game they say that the events of the last Baldur's Gate game took place 100 years ago. At that point the city was already well established for probably already 200 years. So not only is he the only Illithid to keep his old self, but also lives longer than any other in history. Lots of records being broken all at once.
In essence: The Guardian can not be Balduran. He is an Impostor. He simply found some weird way to access his former hosts memories (which would normally be impossible, as the brain is consumed and destroyed during ceremorphosis, and no... if I eat your brain, I do not suddenly have your memories).
And that is granting them the fact that maybe this Iliithid's former host could have been Balduran, which, on a proper timeline, is simply impossible. Any Illithid "born" from Balduran would be long dead of old age when this game takes place.

Now add to that the fact that the whole Balduran reveal has absolutely no implications on the gameplay, outside of making you fight a dragon, ...and then you hopefully know what's what.
The whole thing is never mentioned again in the game (unless you try to f*ck "Balduran").
It's Monty Python comical, just not as funny. It was some last minute, no effort and no implication reveal, added for DnD fans. But I think they underestimated the level of nerdiness. Some random BG3 player wouldn't have cared the slightest about Balduran or proper Illithid lore. But if you bring both of them up to hardcore fans of the universe, you better do it right or get slammed for messing it up. And neither the Balduran, nor the Illithid lore, are up to par.

[beback]

Originally posted by Kaeptn Bleibaer:

Now we can also add the fact that the average lifespan of an Illithid is somewhere between 100 and 200 years (average 120 years). Balduran has been gone far longer than that, and he was human. A lot of stuff simply doesn't add up here.
Baldur's Gate, named after him, has existed for hundreds of years already.
I mean, even in game they say that the events of the last Baldur's Gate game took place 100 years ago. At that point the city was already well established for probably already 200 years. So not only is he the only Illithid to keep his old self, but also lives longer than any other in history. Lots of records being broken all at once.
In essence: The Guardian can not be Balduran. He is an Impostor. He simply found some weird way to access his former hosts memories (which would normally be impossible, as the brain is consumed and destroyed during ceremorphosis, and no... if I eat your brain, I do not suddenly have your memories).
And that is granting them the fact that maybe this Iliithid's former host could have been Balduran, which, on a proper timeline, is simply impossible. Any Illithid "born" from Balduran would be long dead of old age when this game takes place.

Now add to that the fact that the whole Balduran reveal has absolutely no implications on the gameplay, outside of making you fight a dragon, ...and then you hopefully know what's what.
The whole thing is never mentioned again in the game (unless you try to f*ck "Balduran").
It's Monty Python comical, just not as funny. It was some last minute, no effort and no implication reveal, added for DnD fans. But I think they underestimated the level of nerdiness. Some random BG3 player wouldn't have cared the slightest about Balduran or proper Illithid lore. But if you bring both of them up to hardcore fans of the universe, you better do it right or get slammed for messing it up. And neither the Balduran, nor the Illithid lore, are up to par.

This is my explanation of all this crazy stuff with Balduran/Emperor.
1) Emperor is not the real Balduran. But he is not an imposter in a true sense. He is a rogue illithid sincerely think he is Balduran. Why? Because of Ansur! Poor dragon refused to accept the loss, "rescued" the future Emperor, and convinced him that he was his dead friend Balduran.
2) How did he get Balduran's memories? Maybe he didn't? Maybe those are "false memories" created by Ansur, who just thought his friend had an amnesia and kept telling Emperor stories about Balduran's past. At some point, Emperor himself believed that those stories were something that happened to him in the past.
3) How did Ansur recognize Emperor as Balduran in BG3? That's easy. Because Emperor was the "Balduran" Ansur knew for many years after the "rescue" from Illithids.
4) Why did he live for so long? This one is hard. But what if Ansur just lost his mind because of the loss of his best friend,
and Emperor is not even the Illithid created from Balduran's body. Maybe despaired Ansur found some random Illithid who happened to possess some of the Balduran's items and thought that this Iliithid was Balduran, who happened to stay alive for so long because of unknown reason. And then Ansur "rescued" that Illithid, convinced him he is his dead friend Balduran and started "curing"him.

[Narky]

No, if you know much about D&D lore, the individual's soul is literally consumed by the Illithid Tadpole in the process of metamorphosis.

It's Balduran only in memory; he carries his experiences, past identity, and knowledge, as a result of the unique Tadpole he evolved from. An impression of the previous person is left on the Tadpole.

But Balduran is dead—it's the conviction to make you believe his past ident that preserves what's left of him.

Worse off, imo, is it's very likely he's an Ulitharid due to having evolved from a unique Tadpole (which can evolve into an Elder Brain - they're more intelligent and psychically powerful than their Illithid counterparts), which paints a more sinister likelihood that he wants to eliminate the Elder Brain not just for his own freedom, but to eventually establish his own colony.

Which ties into the lore that it's quite possible all Illithids, not matter how benign (and rogue), all willingly/or subconsciously work toward the Grand Design in their own way.

No one that craves power should ever be trusted, while you can trust a person who is wary of the power they hold.