Dual hand crossbows?

[Mister Sir]

It seems you can just dual wield those hand crossbows without any feat needed or am I missing something? I can't seem to dual wield any melee weapons without dual wielder feat. Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining, but it seem tad bit op if I can just slap two hand crossbows on and attack twice easily. Like this gets out of hand fast with say assassin or thief that multiclass with gloomstalker.

[Glyph]

My default, you can dual wield any pair of weapons who both have the 'light' properly. With the feat, you open that to every one hander. The downside to dual wielding is it takes your bonus action to attack with the second weapon.

[BigJ]

Yes you can.

[Muffanzo]

you can dual wield light weapons without a feat. Dual hand crossbows is extremely strong to the point of being broken if mixed with college of swords bard / thief rogue.
It also helps you don't need two weapon fighting to add your dex bonus to the offhand hand crossbow.

[Emjay]

You can dual wield other stuff though. Astarion is quite happy equipping 2 daggers, shortswords or whatever 1h weapon you can match with exception to rapier as apparently they can only go with a shield.

[Mister Sir]

huh thats cool, did not know that, thank you guys.

[Lord_Reavous]

Isn't it broken because it should require the Dual Wield Feat to get the modifier on the off-hand?

Either way Crossbows have always been broken because they don't have to be loaded with an action/bonus action.

[Mister Sir]

Originally posted by Muffanzo:

you can dual wield light weapons without a feat. Dual hand crossbows is extremely strong to the point of being broken if mixed with college of swords bard / thief rogue.
It also helps you don't need two weapon fighting to add your dex bonus to the offhand hand crossbow.

Why specifically that one? Cause what I was thinking is assassin 5/gloomstalker 5/Battle Master 2.

That way you start out of combat, then add basically like 4 more attacks while in first round and then can action surge for even more attacks.

[meleander]

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

It seems you can just dual wield those hand crossbows without any feat needed or am I missing something? I can't seem to dual wield any melee weapons without dual wielder feat. Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining, but it seem tad bit op if I can just slap two hand crossbows on and attack twice easily. Like this gets out of hand fast with say assassin or thief that multiclass with gloomstalker.

Yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ulkuCf-c1Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb7Jx8ogKfI


EDIT: tested the first one on tactical. At lvl 8 you're unstoppable...

[Edstyles]

Originally posted by Lord_Reavous:

Isn't it broken because it should require the Dual Wield Feat to get the modifier on the off-hand?

Either way Crossbows have always been broken because they don't have to be loaded with an action/bonus action.

I mean pressing a button in left hand or right hand wont change the damage :p

[Emjay]

Originally posted by Lord_Reavous:

Isn't it broken because it should require the Dual Wield Feat to get the modifier on the off-hand?

Either way Crossbows have always been broken because they don't have to be loaded with an action/bonus action.

They shouldnt require the dual wield feat as they are light weapons, just the same as you can dual wield daggers. The only thing the feat will do is remove the damage debuff you get with the offhand.

With regards to the loading I do agree. On tabletop the bows are often better to use, or even thrown weapons because you avoid the reload requirement. BG3 got rid of that, for gameplay purposes probably, which results in them being even more potent.

[lordgizka]

It was a big surprise for me to learn that you can dual wield quarterstaffs. Spell DC to the moon.

[halla5216]

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

Originally posted by Muffanzo:

you can dual wield light weapons without a feat. Dual hand crossbows is extremely strong to the point of being broken if mixed with college of swords bard / thief rogue.
It also helps you don't need two weapon fighting to add your dex bonus to the offhand hand crossbow.

Why specifically that one? Cause what I was thinking is assassin 5/gloomstalker 5/Battle Master 2.

That way you start out of combat, then add basically like 4 more attacks while in first round and then can action surge for even more attacks.

You go thief cause they get an extra bonus action which means an extra shot with your offhand every turn.

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Lord_Reavous:

Isn't it broken because it should require the Dual Wield Feat to get the modifier on the off-hand?

Either way Crossbows have always been broken because they don't have to be loaded with an action/bonus action.

The two-weapon fighting style ability (Fighters, Rangers, Bards) lets you add your ability modifier to off-hand attacks.

The dual-wielding feat lets you dual wield with any one-handed weapon you can find and gives you a +1 to AC.

[Sentient_Toaster]

Originally posted by Emjay:

They shouldnt require the dual wield feat as they are light weapons, just the same as you can dual wield daggers. The only thing the feat will do is remove the damage debuff you get with the offhand.

In tabletop... even hand-waving away the Loaded and Ammunition properties, dual-wielding isn't supposed to grant a bonus action attack with ranged weapons regardless of feat. The rules on two-weapon fighting only apply to melee weapons. The light property on hand crossbows pretty much does absolutely nothing in any situation.

It is possible to get a bonus action with a ranged attack from two-weapon fighting, but it requires a pair of thrown melee weapons (and pretty much requires a pair of unusually powerful returning weapons if you're going to keep this up; even if you take Thrown Weapon Fighting Style or object interactions get waived ala BG3, mundane throwing attacks aren't going to keep up with a XBE+SS hand crossbow build).

[Greenegg]

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

Originally posted by Muffanzo:

you can dual wield light weapons without a feat. Dual hand crossbows is extremely strong to the point of being broken if mixed with college of swords bard / thief rogue.
It also helps you don't need two weapon fighting to add your dex bonus to the offhand hand crossbow.

Why specifically that one? Cause what I was thinking is assassin 5/gloomstalker 5/Battle Master 2.

That way you start out of combat, then add basically like 4 more attacks while in first round and then can action surge for even more attacks.

because with dual crossbows you'll want to take the sharpshooter feat for +10 damage every attack so your goal will be to get as many attacks as possible, since thief gets an extra bonus action that's 2 offhand attacks per turn (+20 damage)

after 3 in rogue to get thief you'd go something that gives you the extra attack feature - fighter isn't a bad choice for both action surge and archery fighting style.

That's my understanding of the handcrossbow build anyway, 3 in rogue(maybe 4 to get a faeat), 5 in fighter, then probably something else to further minmax the last 3-4 levels.