The final boss of the game is Ketheric Thorm,

[Velvet Thunder]

And there is nothing you can say that can change my mind. The game has a massive quality in terms of quality and quest design after you arrive in Baldur's Gate.

I can't be the only one that feels this way.

[Caffeine]

Originally posted by Velvet Thunder:

Originally posted by jaredenh:

Gortash is like a cheap *** medieval Dr. Evil. You can't seriously like that character? He's like an inch deep. He's every villain from a knock-off Jame's Bond wannabe flick in fantasy form! This comment made me choke!

EDIT: Sorry. It's all opinion. You're probably a young person. I don't mean to insult you or your tastes on a personal level. But I cannot disagree more. Gortash is one of the lamest, most laughable jokes of a villain I have ever seen. He is my least favorite Baldur's Gate villain of all time. He's just poorly developed and poorly written. Don't get me wrong. I am a BG3 fan. Gortash is the worst villain in any Baldur's Gate game to date.

And Orin is just as poorly introduced. Act III honestly deflated itself.

Fair. Act 3, story-wise isn't great.

[LexingtonSeal]

Originally posted by The Gray Fox:

I haven't gotten very far into ACT 3 yet but I'm going to actually agree with this. Ketharic was a really weak villain to me. You have almost zero interaction with him throughout the entirety of Act 2 outside of his very cliche introduction. Which if you're like me and cleared your way to the shadowfell BEFORE going to moonrise, falls flat on its face at establishing a competent or threatening villain.

I'm only a couple hours into act 3 but I'm already more interested in Gortash's slimy political machinations and manipulations and more intrigued by how unpredictable and unhinged

Well said.

Gortash is the better villain precisely because of that ‘sliminess’ – it’s very well done IMO. He reminds you of the snakes you encounter in upper management or certain areas of politics. He’s relatable, even if his lines aren’t going to win an Oscar for writing.

Ketheric is just your throwaway ‘evil’ fantasy bad guy.

[Caffeine]

Originally posted by EbenezerSlack:

Originally posted by jaredenh:

Gortash is like a cheap *** medieval Dr. Evil. You can't seriously like that character? He's like an inch deep. He's every villain from a knock-off Jame's Bond wannabe flick in fantasy form! This comment made me choke! WTF?:

Never said the writing was Hemmingway – I said the voice-acting was very well done, and he comes across as a devious white-collar manger type, whereas Ketheric is…what exactly…a mumbling old dud with a gimmick in place of a personality.

All of BG3 is badly written – Gortash is no exception, but they at least tried to write him as a proper little snake/weasel: aka, the kind you come across in the real world.

Ketheric is so bland I can’t even remember what the dude is about, and I’m sure Simmons doesn’t know either. Easily the game’s tamest antagonist – even the unspeaking knoll chief expresses more menace.

Okay, I'll agree about the voice actor. he really wasn't great. I'd give him a C+ if he were my student. Mostly because of his rich deep voice. But as far as his back story goes... B+. Maybe that's because BG1 and BG2 were some of my first and favorite games. If you haven't payed them, I guess I can see his part not making much sense or feeling that rich and historic.

[LynX]

I find it hilarious this is 7 pages of opinions being treated as fact. Clearly seen by the varying preferences being thrown around here for both act 2 and 3.

Ya'll didn't like an act. That's fine (Personally wasn't a big fan of act 2 while I preferred act 3 if I had to make an opinion but I still enjoyed it) but the sheer insults and horrible backhanded comments around this is just...wow. Learn to be constructive with the conversation at the very least

[LexingtonSeal]

Originally posted by jaredenh:

But as far as his back story goes... B+. Maybe that's because BG1 and BG2 were some of my first and favorite games. If you haven't payed them, I guess I can see his part not making much sense or feeling that rich and historic.

You’re talking about plot, not character – the latter being more difficult to pull off, since it must be acted with some sincerity/passion etc.

I played BG1 and BG2 back in the day too. Irenicus’s voice actor was brilliant, despite the same somewhat lacklustre writing. Thing is, Irenicus was great because of the menace and sophistication of the voice-acting, which (IMO) is equally well-done with the Gortash character, whatever about his backstory or anything else.

I cannot remember a single thing about Irenicus’s nonsense backstory – and who cares? It’s just fantasy boilerplate. What made the character great was the voice-acting. The Gortash voice-actor, IMO, deserves the same respect – very well done, despite the ridiculous material.

[SQUARE-SOFT]

I have to agree act 3 is not nearly as enjoyable as the rest of the game
the majority of quests after reaching the gate are fetch quests which isnt neccessarily bad on its own and makes sense to have in a city, but in terms of context it all feels disjointed.
You will miss out on a good deal of content if youre playing with respect of npc property.
my first instinct when exploring residential areas with guards is not to break into anything unless i have a purpose. The way majority of quests are set up in BG are found by breaking and entering every house you see which really kills immersion for me.

Despite all that

THE WORST quest in the game IMO is the Iron Throne
Im playing on Tactician mode and as far as i can tell, getting all the prisoners out alive is entirely based on RnG.
If you dont open the cells on the first turn the prisoners wont make it, but when you open the cells the fishmen focus them and sometimes the prisoners skip their turns for no reason... Larian has decided that these fish men are devoted to Gortash with their entire being and don't care at all about their lives. Fishman will ignore a hostile force to kill unarmed fleeing slaves (which makes even less sense considering they are valued hostages.) Not only is this an immersion killer but never in my life have i felt so spited by a game for trying to play the hero.

[LynX]

Originally posted by EbenezerSlack:

Originally posted by jaredenh:

Gortash is like a cheap *** medieval Dr. Evil. You can't seriously like that character? He's like an inch deep. He's every villain from a knock-off Jame's Bond wannabe flick in fantasy form! This comment made me choke! WTF?:

whereas Ketheric is…what exactly…a mumbling old dud with a gimmick in place of a personality.

I will say something that was pointed out to me from one of my friends is that during his "showdown" he doesn't sound like he's in the same tone as you. Like he's not even there(Or in his words: Where the ♥♥♥♥ does this old man think he is? What the ♥♥♥♥ does he think he is currently doing?). Which now on my 2nd playthrough I couldn't unhear it. He says passionate things but the *way* he says it can sometimes be quiet and overall not in the tone you quite expect. Especially if you're going off of the subtitles.

[MadZec]

FFS man PUT SPOILER NOTICE on the freaking title for the entire game........ in the title plot...

[Caffeine]

Originally posted by EbenezerSlack:

Originally posted by jaredenh:

But as far as his back story goes... B+. Maybe that's because BG1 and BG2 were some of my first and favorite games. If you haven't payed them, I guess I can see his part not making much sense or feeling that rich and historic.

You’re talking about plot, not character – the latter being more difficult to pull off, since it must be acted with some sincerity/passion etc.

I played BG1 and BG2 back in the day too. Irenicus’s voice actor was brilliant, despite the same somewhat lacklustre writing. Thing is, Irenicus was great because of the menace and sophistication of the voice-acting, which (IMO) is equally well-done with the Gortash character, whatever about his backstory or anything else.

I cannot remember a single thing about Irenicus’s nonsense backstory – and who cares? It’s just fantasy boilerplate. What made the character great was the voice-acting. The Gortash voice-actor, IMO, deserves the same respect – very well done, despite the ridiculous material.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about Gortash. I can't take him seriously. He actually makes me laugh out loud. I would give Gortash's voice actor a C if he were my student. He doesn't do anything to stand out from anyone.

[Velvet Thunder]

Originally posted by jaredenh:

Originally posted by EbenezerSlack:

You’re talking about plot, not character – the latter being more difficult to pull off, since it must be acted with some sincerity/passion etc.

I played BG1 and BG2 back in the day too. Irenicus’s voice actor was brilliant, despite the same somewhat lacklustre writing. Thing is, Irenicus was great because of the menace and sophistication of the voice-acting, which (IMO) is equally well-done with the Gortash character, whatever about his backstory or anything else.

I cannot remember a single thing about Irenicus’s nonsense backstory – and who cares? It’s just fantasy boilerplate. What made the character great was the voice-acting. The Gortash voice-actor, IMO, deserves the same respect – very well done, despite the ridiculous material.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about Gortash. I can't take him seriously. He actually makes me laugh out loud. I would give Gortash's voice actor a C if he were my student. He doesn't do anything to stand out from anyone.

Gortash will explain in full view of the entire BG court his entire scheme when you first meet him. Some shots during this dialogue will actually show NPCs listening in. I stopped caring about the plot at that point.

[LexingtonSeal]

Originally posted by jaredenh:

We'll just have to agree to disagree about Gortash. I can't take him seriously. He actually makes me laugh out loud. I would give Gortash's voice actor a C if he were my student. He doesn't do anything to stand out from anyone.

It’s an interesting take. I very rarely find voice actors impressive, but this guy was the only one of the lot who seemed to ‘reign it in’, keep it cool and concentrate on the delivery. There was a complete absence of ‘camp’ (IMO). Anyway, that’s just my opinion. I’ll have to hear a few more lines to be convinced I’m somehow wildly wrong that this voice actor did not provide a sober, measured take on what appears be quite a convincing white collar weasel.

Let’s just say I’ve met quite a few Gortashs in my time – they talk like this dude, so maybe that’s why I’m bias.

[Caffeine]

Originally posted by Velvet Thunder:

Originally posted by jaredenh:

We'll just have to agree to disagree about Gortash. I can't take him seriously. He actually makes me laugh out loud. I would give Gortash's voice actor a C if he were my student. He doesn't do anything to stand out from anyone.

Gortash will explain in full view of the entire BG court his entire scheme when you first meet him. Some shots during this dialogue will actually show NPCs listening in. I stopped caring about the plot at that point.

That's fair. But even playing the game as the dark urge -- which is arguably when Gortash makes the most sense -- I can't help but laugh. But that is probably Larian's fault. As much as I love their games (even the older ones) their plots have always been pretty shallow.

[LynX]

Originally posted by Velvet Thunder:

Originally posted by jaredenh:

We'll just have to agree to disagree about Gortash. I can't take him seriously. He actually makes me laugh out loud. I would give Gortash's voice actor a C if he were my student. He doesn't do anything to stand out from anyone.

Gortash will explain in full view of the entire BG court his entire scheme when you first meet him. Some shots during this dialogue will actually show NPCs listening in. I stopped caring about the plot at that point.

Tbf he can just do that

There's a lot of points in the game that shows it doesn't matter what they are listening to because they are either forced to agree or absolute power is already in affect.

Plus considering If you go to fight him after the steel watchers are destroyed some of the members are dead on the ground tells me that he's not really all that afraid of what they do or don't know. Plus steel watchers are all answering to pretty much *just* him.

Though I find Orins story a little more interesting due to her ties to Bhaal and most of the story is clearly favouring her with even a whole ending dedicated to joining bhaal. I've got money on dark urge being why. Gortash I found to be doing his role well. But of course he's being told through random NPCs than anything else. Making it hard to really care about him as much. He is 100% a generic villain. But can't win em all

[The Gray Fox]

I think the real consensus of this thread should be that all three of the main villains are poorly written cardboard cutouts that wouldn't be out of place in a Saturday morning cartoon.

[Space]

Originally posted by Zygfryd:

Originally posted by Phero:

Yes

Indeed.

Agreed.

Also the Ketheric fight was about as cool as any of the boss fights. OST 10/10 Cinematic in feeling 10/10 - Over in like one round on tactician difficulty 0/10 literally never get to see what *any* of the bosses in the game do because they die immediately.

Mixed feelings of "woah this is epic" that were quickly followed by raw disappointment after every single cool encounter and it was SO sad.