The final boss of the game is Ketheric Thorm,

[Velvet Thunder]

And there is nothing you can say that can change my mind. The game has a massive quality in terms of quality and quest design after you arrive in Baldur's Gate.

I can't be the only one that feels this way.

[Mizu]

Escrito originalmente por sleeper:

Escrito originalmente por Mizu:

Ketheric definitely felt like he was the most competent member of the chosen trio. Gortash was clever but in terms of personal power he wasn't really that scary and Orin had personal power but she was too crazy to really coordinate anything. Meanwhile Ketheric (even ignoring his invincibility gimmick) was a powerful paladin that could kick ass in a fight, smart enough to handle effectively running an army, charismatic enough that in the past he managed to gather together an entire army from scratch while serving Shar (which is a major handicap because Shar is terrible), and further has the ability to make his own army at will because as the chosen servant of a death god he has ridiculously OP necromancy skills that let him raise a literal army of the undead to fight for him so long as there are enough corpses laying around. He was someone that could be a believable final antagonist for an entire campaign even without that whole 'cult of the absolute' stuff slapped on top of the threat he presented. It really doesn't feel that surprising to me that the Dead 3's plot started to fall apart once he was no longer around to hold things together.

well technically speaking the whole absolute plan did not even came from any of the 3 I think Ketheric was a late addition even.

He was involved early enough to have worked with the true chosen of Bhaal before Orin stole the job, at least.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

The final boss is Larian.

[Velvet Thunder]

Escrito originalmente por Phero:

Escrito originalmente por Velvet Thunder:

The game has a massive quality in terms of quality

Yes

Yeah, I didn’t proofread my comment.

What I meant was “The game has a massive nosedive in terms of quality”. Sorry about that.

Escrito originalmente por EbenezerSlack:

Man, I’m gonna rest my case on this one.

Obviously some hardcore Ketheric fans out there. But yeah even in battle the dude was solo’d by my Lae-zel with zero effort. Then his last words – lol-able level vapid…

I’m gonna sign off – we’ve all made our remarks. IMO, the voice actor thought the writing was crap and didn’t put in any effort.

Each to their own, I guess…and god bless…to you Ketheric enthusiasts.

When people say that he was the best antagonist in the game... you do understand that they are talking within the context of the game itself? You are saying that his writing is crap and do not offer any counterposition. I'll explain it again in case it's still misunderstood: Out of Orin, Gortash, Ketheric and the Elder brain, Ketheric is the most interesting.

How you defeated him has no bearing on the discussion.

In my opinion, independently of how you feel of the writing, Ketheric had actual attempts of build up and backstory. Gortash is mentioned by Karlach, but does not seem that crucial to the storyline. Orin is just… I mean… yeah…

[Econ]

Escrito originalmente por EbenezerSlack:

Gripping?

Yeah, that meeting bit was the part I thought a bit off.

What was gripping was this (starts at 3.57):

https://youtu.be/BghWdi0pCo4?si=fWpYGk7Aiac8NxAT

As said, I think it's an issue of a film actor in theatre - listening to him while watching a noisy zoomed out isometric game is one thing; watching him live delivering his lines is another.

But it may just be the writing in the two clips.

[Mizu]

Escrito originalmente por EbenezerSlack:

Escrito originalmente por Econ:

but then I saw a video on YouTube of the actors delivering their lines and Simmons was the clear standout to me, utterly gripping.

Gripping?

https://youtu.be/ofaV2liYSGU?t=73

From that point on – you think that sounds like someone emotionally invested in their lines?
The only thing he’s ‘gripping’ is the pay cheque after he phoned it in.

Have you considered the possibility that his character is supposed to sound bored because Ketheric really couldn't care less about judging some goblins that were dumb enough to report back in after failing a mission but has to as part of the charade?

[LexingtonSeal]

Escrito originalmente por Mizu:

Have you considered the possibility that his character is supposed to sound bored because Ketheric really couldn't care less about judging some goblins that were dumb enough to report back in after failing a mission but has to as part of the charade?

Not really, no (lol)

[LexingtonSeal]

Escrito originalmente por Velvet Thunder:

When people say that he was the best antagonist in the game... you do understand that they are talking within the context of the game itself? You are saying that his writing is crap and do not offer any counterposition. I'll explain it again in case it's still misunderstood: Out of Orin, Gortash, Ketheric and the Elder brain, Ketheric is the most interesting.

The only ‘context’ in which the guy appears is the game, so no idea what in the hell your point is re: that.

I presented several quotes where he reads like he’s a robot. They’re blanked out with spoiler tags.

I also provided a video clip of the voice actor sounding like he could care less about the crap he had to read out.

If that doesn’t qualify as a ‘counterposition’ to you, I’m all ears as to where I went wrong. But let’s be honest, you’re talking through your hat.

[Velvet Thunder]

Escrito originalmente por EbenezerSlack:

Escrito originalmente por Velvet Thunder:

When people say that he was the best antagonist in the game... you do understand that they are talking within the context of the game itself? You are saying that his writing is crap and do not offer any counterposition. I'll explain it again in case it's still misunderstood: Out of Orin, Gortash, Ketheric and the Elder brain, Ketheric is the most interesting.

The only ‘context’ in which the guy appears is the game, so no idea what in the hell your point is re: that.

I presented several quotes where he reads like he’s a robot. They’re blanked out with spoiler tags.

I also provided a video clip of the voice actor sounding like he could care less about the crap he had to read out.

If that doesn’t qualify as a ‘counterposition’ to you, I’m all ears as to where I went wrong. But let’s be honest, you’re talking through your hat.

wtf? Im going to assume there is a language barrier here.

He's the best because there is no other antagonist within the game that can compete against him. That's what "within the context of the game means." By counterposition I mean point out an antagonist within the game that is more interesting.

"But he sucks".

That's beyond the point if he is still, all things considered, the most interesting antagonist around.

"The voice actor sounds bored."

Because Orin and Gortash sound that much more interesting right?

[LexingtonSeal]

Escrito originalmente por Velvet Thunder:

wtf? Im going to assume there is a language barrier here.

Nice try with the ‘language barrier’ snark – from someone who just keeps saying ‘he’s great’ without actually articulating why he feels that way. Feeling intellectually insecure, are we? Yeah, that’s what happens when people try to insult others instead of engaging them on a civil level: the brittle little brain, that complains and shames.

Here’s some simple English for you: the actor sounds jaded with the lines, and even yawns during a particularly trite piece of dialogue. His whole character is built on a gimmick – the thing that makes him invincible. I’ve nowhere seen/read anything that implies the guy has any depth whatsoever.

You don’t ever explain your reasoning, outside of ‘I think he’s the best’. Protip – if you want to be taken seriously, back up your opinion with something of substance instead of insulting the poster who said something that caused you intellectual frustration.

[Velvet Thunder]

Escrito originalmente por EbenezerSlack:

Escrito originalmente por Velvet Thunder:

wtf? Im going to assume there is a language barrier here.

Nice try with the ‘language barrier’ snark – from someone who just keeps saying ‘he’s great’ without actually articulating why he feels that way. Feeling intellectually insecure, are we? Yeah, that’s what happens when people try to insult others instead of engaging them on a civil level: the brittle little brain, that complains and shames.

Here’s some simple English for you: the actor sounds jaded with the lines, and even yawns during a particularly trite piece of dialogue. His whole character is built on a gimmick – the thing that makes him invincible. I’ve nowhere seen/read anything that implies the guy has any depth whatsoever.

You don’t ever explain your reasoning, outside of ‘I think he’s the best’. Protip – if you want to be taken seriously, back up your opinion with something of substance instead of insulting the poster who said something that caused you some intellectual frustration.

You again miss the point.

We are not saying that he is great. We are saying that compared to everyone else, he's the best choice around.

So no, it wasn't a language barrier, you're just a waste of time.

[LexingtonSeal]

Escrito originalmente por Velvet Thunder:

So no, it wasn't a language barrier, you're just a waste of time.

Still with the angry insults.

If you were confident in your opinion, you would not hiss and spit at the poster.

Your anger betrays your insecurity. I am blocking you anyway, because obviously this is going nowhere re: a mature, civil conversation.

[Caffeine]

Escrito originalmente por EbenezerSlack:

Nah, still don’t get the Ketheric praise. He’s introduced and then disappeared in just a few scenes. He’s also gimmicky, due to the cliché ‘thing that makes the bad guy invincible’. The lines are delivered in a jaded monotone – and rightly so, he has no purpose outside of being invulnerable due to the gimmick.

At least with the Gortash character, he talks through his political motivations and makes them even seem rational. This is a villain who reminds you of your dodgy senior manager, who even invites you to be part of the ‘team’ who implements the dodgy policy. So far, it’s surprisingly well-done – almost as if it was written by an entirely different writing team than those who concocted the gimmicky Ketheric plot.

Gortash is like a cheap *** medieval Dr. Evil. You seriously like that character? He's like an inch deep. He's every villain from a knock-off Jame's Bond wannabe flick in fantasy form! This comment made me choke!

EDIT: Sorry. It's all opinion. You're probably a young person. You probably haven't experienced a lot of great villains. I don't mean to insult you or your tastes on a personal level. But I cannot disagree more. Gortash is one of the lamest, most laughable jokes of a villain I have ever seen. He is my least favorite Baldur's Gate villain of all time. He's just poorly developed and poorly written. Don't get me wrong. I am a BG3 fan. But Gortash is the worst villain in any Baldur's Gate game to date.

[Velvet Thunder]

Escrito originalmente por jaredenh:

Escrito originalmente por EbenezerSlack:

Nah, still don’t get the Ketheric praise. He’s introduced and then disappeared in just a few scenes. He’s also gimmicky, due to the cliché ‘thing that makes the bad guy invincible’. The lines are delivered in a jaded monotone – and rightly so, he has no purpose outside of being invulnerable due to the gimmick.

At least with the Gortash character, he talks through his political motivations and makes them even seem rational. This is a villain who reminds you of your dodgy senior manager, who even invites you to be part of the ‘team’ who implements the dodgy policy. So far, it’s surprisingly well-done – almost as if it was written by an entirely different writing team than those who concocted the gimmicky Ketheric plot.

Gortash is like a cheap *** medieval Dr. Evil. You can't seriously like that character? He's like an inch deep. He's every villain from a knock-off Jame's Bond wannabe flick in fantasy form! This comment made me choke!

EDIT: Sorry. It's all opinion. You're probably a young person. I don't mean to insult you or your tastes on a personal level. But I cannot disagree more. Gortash is one of the lamest, most laughable jokes of a villain I have ever seen. He is my least favorite Baldur's Gate villain of all time. He's just poorly developed and poorly written. Don't get me wrong. I am a BG3 fan. Gortash is the worst villain in any Baldur's Gate game to date.

And Orin is just as poorly introduced. Act III honestly deflated itself.

[The Gray Fox]

Escrito originalmente por EbenezerSlack:

Nah, still don’t get the Ketheric praise. He’s introduced and then disappeared in just a few scenes. He’s also gimmicky, due to the cliché ‘thing that makes the bad guy invincible’. The lines are delivered in a jaded monotone – and rightly so, he has no purpose outside of being invulnerable due to the gimmick.

At least with the Gortash character, he talks through his political motivations and makes them even seem rational. This is a villain who reminds you of your dodgy senior manager, who even invites you to be part of the ‘team’ who implements the dodgy policy. So far, it’s surprisingly well-done – almost as if it was written by an entirely different writing team than those who concocted the gimmicky Ketheric plot.

I haven't gotten very far into ACT 3 yet but I'm going to actually agree with this. Ketharic was a really weak villain to me. You have almost zero interaction with him throughout the entirety of Act 2 outside of his very cliche introduction. Which if you're like me and cleared your way to the shadowfell BEFORE going to moonrise, falls flat on its face at establishing a competent or threatening villain.

I'm only a couple hours into act 3 but I'm already more interested in Gortash's slimy political machinations and manipulations and more intrigued by how unpredictable and unhinged Orin than Ketharic. Not that I have high hopes that Larian isn't going to completely drop the ball with them either. Weak last acts and endings on release are kind of their motif at this point.

[LexingtonSeal]

Escrito originalmente por jaredenh:

Gortash is like a cheap *** medieval Dr. Evil. You can't seriously like that character? He's like an inch deep. He's every villain from a knock-off Jame's Bond wannabe flick in fantasy form! This comment made me choke! WTF?:

Never said the writing was Hemmingway – I said the voice-acting was very well done, and he comes across as a devious white-collar manger type, whereas Ketheric is…what exactly…a mumbling old dud with a gimmick in place of a personality.

All of BG3 is badly written – Gortash is no exception, but they at least tried to write him as a proper little snake/weasel: aka, the kind you come across in the real world.

Ketheric is so bland I can’t even remember what the dude is about, and I’m sure Simmons doesn’t know either. Easily the game’s tamest antagonist – even the unspeaking knoll chief expresses more menace.