One "good" aligned ending ; Many "evil" aligned endings

[Kif]

I would like more variation.

We've got the Bhaal, Absolute and various eat Orpheus' brain endings. Yes, eating his brain is evil, friends. But for good aligned characters, our only option is to free him.

Orpheus is innocent. Objectively. He's been trapped in there for ages. Literally imprisoned just for his ability to challenge evil.

Why would Balduran let himself be assimilated into the Netherbrain after working tirelessly to avoid exactly that?

If he really was 100% convinced that freeing Orpheus would result in an immediate fight, why not roll with that and eat the brain at the end of said fight, rather than losing himself to the Absolute? Why not attempt to fight your party right there before they free Orpheus?

I'm not asking for a perfect ending, and I appreciate having to make tough decisions in RPGs, but the fact that I couldn't at the very least talk it through with Balduran without him reverting to "...still you don't trust me..." feels disappointing. Especially because by that stage, he felt like a genuine friend.

[Action Man]

Spoilers throughout, and I most likely missed blocking some.

Why would Balduran...

Because it's a mind flayer that ate Balduran's. The person before is long gone. It's a mind flayer that is first and foremost, concerned with self preservation. Looking at the board, it saw no other outcome where it could live. I would say it had more options, but not in this game.

If he really was 100% convinced that freeing Orpheus would result in an immediate fight, why not roll with that and eat the brain at the end of said fight, rather than losing himself to the Absolute?

You answered your own question. If it thought it was an immediate death, there's no waiting until after the big fight.

I'm not asking for a perfect ending, and I appreciate having to make tough decisions in RPGs, but the fact that I couldn't at the very least talk it through with without him reverting to "...still you don't trust me..." feels disappointing. Especially because by that stage, he felt like a genuine friend.

It's a mind flayer manipulating you. At the end of the day, the party are the tools for it to reach its objective. It is in its best interest to keep those tools well cared for and maintained, but it never extends you the trust that it constantly expects from you. There's an interaction with it at the creche, but I don't remember all the possibilities there. I think if you kill it, it's game over for you.

I maintain that the being you deal with is not Balduran. It's a worm that ate his brain.

[Azazil]

Originally posted by Kif:

I would like more variation.

We've got the Bhaal, Absolute and various eat Orpheus' brain endings. Yes, eating his brain is evil, friends. But for good aligned characters, our only option is to free him.

Orpheus is innocent. Objectively. He's been trapped in there for ages. Literally imprisoned just for his ability to challenge evil.

Why would Balduran let himself be assimilated into the Netherbrain after working tirelessly to avoid exactly that?

If he really was 100% convinced that freeing Orpheus would result in an immediate fight, why not roll with that and eat the brain at the end of said fight, rather than losing himself to the Absolute? Why not attempt to fight your party right there before they free Orpheus?

I'm not asking for a perfect ending, and I appreciate having to make tough decisions in RPGs, but the fact that I couldn't at the very least talk it through with Balduran without him reverting to "...still you don't trust me..." feels disappointing. Especially because by that stage, he felt like a genuine friend.

Have you ever thought maybe you are evil?

[Jack ♠]

Originally posted by Action Man:

Spoilers throughout, and I most likely missed blocking some.

Why would Balduran...

Because it's a mind flayer that ate Balduran's. The person before is long gone. It's a mind flayer that is first and foremost, concerned with self preservation. Looking at the board, it saw no other outcome where it could live. I would say it had more options, but not in this game.

If he really was 100% convinced that freeing Orpheus would result in an immediate fight, why not roll with that and eat the brain at the end of said fight, rather than losing himself to the Absolute?

You answered your own question. If it thought it was an immediate death, there's no waiting until after the big fight.

I'm not asking for a perfect ending, and I appreciate having to make tough decisions in RPGs, but the fact that I couldn't at the very least talk it through with without him reverting to "...still you don't trust me..." feels disappointing. Especially because by that stage, he felt like a genuine friend.

It's a mind flayer manipulating you. At the end of the day, the party are the tools for it to reach its objective. It is in its best interest to keep those tools well cared for and maintained, but it never extends you the trust that it constantly expects from you. There's an interaction with it at the creche, but I don't remember all the possibilities there. I think if you kill it, it's game over for you.

I maintain that the being you deal with is not Balduran. It's a worm that ate his brain.

Only good mind flayer is a dead one.

[Fluff]

That is the most common issue with the ending for a truce between Orpheus and Emperor, so either Developers will add it later or Mods will add it later.

Either way that's the most popular request from what I saw both here and at BG3 reddit (which is very wholesome btw and much more mature than steam discussions) so it's a question of time.

[Noctoculus]

Most honest answer is because they wanted to release the game in August and cut half the content.

[Fluff]

Originally posted by Skobone:

People betray each other for money and much less all the time. So I'd trust non-human much more and story tells us enough for that. It also shows he has memories and personality of former self and enough of self control and desire to be better than a lot of humans.

[Kif]

Spoilers.

You're right, and I misspoke. I agree with you all on The Emperor not being the OG Balduran. To be fully honest, I think I typed Balduran because it was shorter than "The Emperor".

I do not agree that the loss of the soul is an all winning argument against pro ceremorphosis choices in the game. Half of the people playing the game IRL don't even believe they have souls themselves and they're fine with that. In forgotten realms lore, far worse things can happen to the soul than being cleaved from the mind too early or being outright obliterated.

In so far as good aligned players pickpocket half of the merchants in the game (but still go on to save the day), mindflayers like The Emperor and Omeluum likewise have ample potential for good, too.

[Sima Marlin]

I keep telling people : Bg 3 is one of the few campaigns for evil heroes.

[Aos Si]

This kind of discussions show that the game succeeded at what it was trying to do. I would actually say that it has no morally "good" endings. From the posts in this thread it seems that people consider siding with Orpheus to be the "good" ending. However keep in mind that:

1. The Emperor doesn't actually just seek "more power' as some suggested. If you decided to side with him and in the end suggest to dominate the elder brain, he outright tells you that it is too dangerous and advises against it. His motivations are more nuanced.

2. Question whether the Emperor retains Balduran's personality or not is irrelevant. I believe it was added by the writers to manipulate players perception and it was masterfully done. The player character doesn't know anything about Balduran himself, except some legends that might have been (and most likely were) edited to represent him in better light. And so this revelation doesn't really tell us whether we should trust the Emperor more or less. The only thing we actually know is our personal interaction with the Emperor / Guardian from the moment he first saved our lives.

3. I would also like to point out that freeing Orpheus involves betraying the character who was ostensibly your ally from the beginning of the game, and who saved your life several times (was it the Illithid or his former personality who did this - does it matter?) Was this a "morally good" thing? How is it different from what the Emperor did to Ansur? And yet it seems some posts above condemn the Emperor for this action. And I have a feeling it is this sense of betrayal that made the original poster make their post.

4. Some may justify betraying the Emperor, by saying you do it for the "greater good". What is this "good" exactly though? You get to stop the grand design regardless of your choice here, so what you are really deciding is whether Orpheus deserves to be freed. What do we base this decision on? We only know about him from a few half forgotten myths and legends, since even most githyanki don't know anything for certain about Orpheus. We also have words of Voss, but he is clearly too close to this power struggle among the ruling githyanki, and stands to gain a lot of power (same thing people accuse the Emperor of) if he is successful, so his words can't really be taken at face value. For all we know Orpheus may turn out to be a terrible tyrant as well.

In the end it comes down to what you feel is right and who do you believe, which is I think what the writers were going for and is exactly how it should be with the dark fantasy.

P.S. Personally, I would also like to see more dialog options there. For example, it is clear that the Emperor abandons you when you decide to free Orpheus because he believes Orpheus would never protect him from the elder brain domination, so he has no choice at that point. It would be nice to be able to talk to Orpheus before deciding on anything and presenting him with a choice - either he agrees to protect the Emperor or his brain gets eaten.

[Ember]

Originally posted by Kif:

Why would Balduran let himself be assimilated into the Netherbrain after working tirelessly to avoid exactly that?

I also found this baffling. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Way to prove me wrong for not trusting you bro, obviously you're very stable and good, what was I thinking.

The final third of the main quest was disappointing, to put it mildly.

[Edstyles]

Its mass effect levels of dissapointing ending. Which annoys me that mass effect got so bad rep :p

[Banelord]

I am still hoping for a Bane's Chosen ending. Lord Bane is the most iconic LE god in Faerun, and 5e lore be damned. Bhall's been overused, and let him and MYrkul play the second violin to Bane, as it should be

[Kif]

Originally posted by Skobone:

Originally posted by Aos Si:

4. Freeing Orpheus is good not only from a character perspective in the moment, but from a omniscient perspective knowing the end results of our actions. The Githyanki are ruled by a Lich Queen who eats her own subjects in a bid for godhood. Just by comparison, Orpheus is already a saint. We also know that Orpheus is reasonable and level-headed. Not only that, he is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, obliterating both his body and his soul to become an illithid, when he has the power to force that sacrifice on you. If that's not the mark of a good man, I don't know what is.

I agree with most of your points. We can't look at it from a meta perspective, though. D&D is all about the moment, and what you would do given what you know at the time.

Originally posted by Ismael Clowndova:

I am still hoping for a Bane's Chosen ending. Lord Bane is the most iconic LE god in Faerun, and 5e lore be damned. Bhall's been overused, and let him and MYrkul play the second violin to Bane, as it should be

Why not all three? A player character can ordinarily do absolutely anything, after all.

I just wish there were endings for all alignments. If the PC could pledge to fight Vlaakith and help to free the coerced Githyanki (alongside Laezel?) at the end at the game, that would be fantastic. I wouldn't feel so boxed in by my choices regarding Orpheus, then.

[Banelord]

because Bhaal is overused; would be much more happy with "dark urge" being the "iachtu xvim" the Chosen of Bane, as Bane is by far more great than Bhaal. other than that, yes, there should be more endings and more choices as the evil player, the reason i said Bane is the utter lack of ORGANIZED evil playthrough, you can only be a toxic jerk like Bhaal, and not a systematic evil tyrant like Lord Bane

[Aos Si]

Originally posted by Skobone:

4. Freeing Orpheus is good not only from a character perspective in the moment, but from a omniscient perspective knowing the end results of our actions. The Githyanki are ruled by a Lich Queen who eats her own subjects in a bid for godhood. Just by comparison, Orpheus is already a saint. We also know that Orpheus is reasonable and level-headed. Not only that, he is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, obliterating both his body and his soul to become an illithid, when he has the power to force that sacrifice on you. If that's not the mark of a good man, I don't know what is.

Originally posted by Kif:

I agree with most of your points. We can't look at it from a meta perspective, though. D&D is all about the moment, and what you would do given what you know at the time.

I have to agree with Kif here. Just because the outcome was good doesn't mean that the decision that led to it was also good. Not only we have to look at it from what we know at the moment, but we also have to imagine what our characters would think and forget we are playing a game (otherwise it would give us meta information that freeing Orpheus is a safe and viable option, surely such a major event chain would not lead to instant game over).

From the character perspective, there is no guarantee that Orpheus would bother to shield us from the elder brain, in fact it is more than likely that he wouldn't. Sure, Voss told us that Orpheus would protect us, but Voss doesn't have a tadpole in his brain and once Orpheus is free he would have nothing to lose either way.

So first we are faced with high likelihood of becoming illithids under elder brain's control and losing all agency in the conflict. But that alone doesn't mean it's not a good decision,
after all sacrifices sometimes have to be made. However, it is worse than that. Voss clearly tells you that Orpheus has an old grudge with Vlaakith, and he would focus on defeating her after being released. Also remember that githyanki have multiple cities across that astral sea and settlements on other planes to grow their young, so the future of Baldur's gate or even the Sword coast would not be high on their priority list.

So when making the decision to free Orpheus our characters would not only likely give away their minds and souls and become illithids they might as well doom the entire Sword Coast to illithid domination, while Orpheus and Voss fly off to fight their internal war with Vlaakith.

Is that a good choice? If you care primarily about the Gith people then undoubtedly yes. However, if for some reason you care about Baldur's Gate and Sword Coast then the answer is far, far from clear.