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Maverick56 Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:08am
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BG3 isn't the GOTY
Before you head to comment something like "L take" or something let me explain.

BG3 was a good experience for me. I played through EA around 100 hours, and then I've put in another 100 since the full release. I've done two full play-throughs (Good and Bad as Durge)

I personally think I have gotten more out of this game then $60 worth and I consider this game to be good, if not great.

However...

This game has some very glaring issues, one of which is an issue with Larian themselves.

The main issue I have and the reason I don't think BG3 is GOTY worthy, is...the game just isn't finished.

And frankly, I'm not the only one who thinks that, most major streamers recently finished up their playthroughs, and "final thoughts" and many have come to the same conclusion I have.

Act 1 = Masterpiece worth of celebration.
Act 2 = A good experience with some interesting design, but slower and much more focused.
Act 3 = A buggy, unfinished, content cut, hellscape with some really cool moments sprinkled into the mix to warrant the cost of playing through it.
Ending = Piss poor and lazy.

This "spread" is unfortunately part of the "Larian issue" I mentioned above. This is not the first time Larian has done this kind of thing. In fact this isn't even the 2nd time.

Divinity Original Sin and it's sequel Divinity Original Sin 2 both suffered from poor 3rd Act/late game quality in both story and game-play, with DOS2 totally lacking an ending on launch.

Now those games have been "fixed" by each getting their own Definitive Editions which basically revamps most of the game, and adds some pretty bulky content that was absent in the original games.

This is a horrible practice, that I don't feel shouldn't be rewarded, let alone celebrated.

That all being said, I still think BG3 in it's current state (as of this post) is still a good game.

I just think that GOTY should be for Excellent Games, and for teams that didn't cut 30% of the end of their game to beat out Starfield's release.

8.3/10

(8.7 once they fix the bugs, 9+/10 if they actually add the content they cut)


EDIT 1:

For the literal sheep who think that "There is no cut content, that is a lie!"

Withers was meant to narrate the ending Epilogue...just one of many examples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNhKgpYKJj4

This is a link to the assembled list of all known cuts via datamining.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15z3jlb/a_list_of_all_cut_content_spoilers_nonplagiarized/
Last edited by Maverick56; Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:34am
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Originally posted by Gregorovitch:
Originally posted by Maverick56:
Act 1 = Masterpiece worth of celebration.
Act 2 = A good experience with some interesting design, but slower and much more focused.
Act 3 = A buggy, unfinished, content cut, hellscape with some really cool moments sprinkled into the mix to warrant the cost of playing through it.
Ending = Piss poor and lazy.

This "spread" is unfortunately part of the "Larian issue" I mentioned above. This is not the first time Larian has done this kind of thing. In fact this isn't even the 2nd time.

You are correct about the relative quality of the three acts. Cohhcarnage in his final thoughts video rates Act 1 @ 100, Act 2 @90-95 and Act 3 @70-80. I think most folks agree with that assessment near enough. He still rates the overall game as the best he's ever played. I think most foolks would agree with that too. Act 3 might be bad compared to Act 1 but Act 1 is so unbelievably good that this is not exactly cutting criticism.

You are also correct that Larian have done this before. This is exactly what happened to both DOS1 and DOS2. There is a very simple explanation for this. Act 1 was in early access (same as DOS1 and DOS2). Millions (literally) of players spent hundreds of hours each (1000's in some cases) combing through every inch of it reporting every little thing they could find that was wrong or they thought could be improved. So it's ended up astonishingly good. What a surprise.

Acts 2 & 3 were not in EA. That's the difference. And it's not possible to get round that. No developer can. Essentially there are two and only two choices Larian could have made so that all three acts ended up around the same quality:

1. Don't do EA at all with any part of the game. That way it would have all ended up at about the same quality as Act 3 is now, albeit it would have been released somewhat sooner.

2. Put the whole game through EA. That way release would have been delayed a lot longer and by the time it was released everybody would already know every aspect of the story, the companions, the locations, the equipment, the whole lot. All of it. No surprises. No real reason to play it again.

The simple fact is that with a cRPG, which is an incredibly complex type of game to make, it is absolutely impossible to duplicate the enormous effect of thousands of real players playing it for millions of hours on the quality of the final product. Impossible.

So which option would YOU choose, @Maverick56?

Option 1 or option 2? Or on reflection and further consideration perhaps you will come round to the idea that Larian actually know exactly what they are doing and their development pipeline is as good as they can figure it could be, all things considered. Players would certainly seem to agree with that. Both DOS2 and BG3 sit at 95% odd +ve review scores which blows pretty much all other RPGs out of the water.

There is also a second big effect on players at work here that not many folks talk about. By the time players get to Act 3 they are tired, they want to finish the game already and they also want to be wowed by the end game content. This leads to disappointment when the end game content does not reach a climax that surpasses the early game content.

What Larian are going to do about that of course is exactly the same as what they did in DOS2. They will keep working on the end game content and eventually release a Definitive Edition. Then the game will be complete. Everything @100.
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Showing 31-45 of 366 comments
Xype Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:33am 
Originally posted by Tijger:
OK, which game that came out this year (thus far) is beter than BG 3?
That is all a matter of opinion, I love bg3 but there are people who hate it, you have to understand that it isn't a game for everyone, but for people who like this kind of tactical rpg its awesome.
#31
Tijger Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:33am 
Originally posted by Maverick56:
Originally posted by morrganstain:
BG3 isnt game of the year, its the game of the decade! :D

I hate to break it to you.

But...

Elden Ring
Ghost of Tsushima
FF 7 Remake
Tears of the Kingdom

are all far more solid contenders for that title so far. Though I have no doubts in my mind that when Larian releases the "Definitive Edition" in 2-3 years, it will 100% be in contention.

Thinking it is currently is just silly.

None of those are eligible for GOTY in 2023 on PC. Least of all a remake.

Elden Ring already won it in 2022, Ghosts is PS only, Tears is Nintendo only.

Maybe you should consider what the GOTY title means?
#32
Incantus Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:35am 
It will be GOTY, if nothing but the fact that its the highest rated game in decades and that there is no competition for it releasing this year.

Starfield is a good game without a soul, mods will fix it, but for now it lacks a lot that BG3 provides.
#33
Tijger Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:35am 
Originally posted by Xype:
Originally posted by Tijger:
OK, which game that came out this year (thus far) is beter than BG 3?
That is all a matter of opinion, I love bg3 but there are people who hate it, you have to understand that it isn't a game for everyone, but for people who like this kind of tactical rpg its awesome.

Thats not the point though, every year a game is voted GOTY from a huge bunch of available games in all genres.

Elden Ring wasnt exactly a mainstream type of game either yet it won GOTY to name one from last year.
#34
Maverick56 Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:37am 
Originally posted by WeirdWizardDave:
Originally posted by Maverick56:

I mean I've personally seen the data, the dialogue lines, the map, and the subtitle files...

Granted the map, was very bare bones, and clearly was cut a while ago, but it was still cut, and found in the released game files. So no, again, you are misinformed.
You're going to need to provide the links.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15z3jlb/a_list_of_all_cut_content_spoilers_nonplagiarized/

Also Larian literally openly said they cut content, Withers has almost an HOUR of narrative lines that were all cut.
#35
Dr. Raven Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:37am 
Originally posted by Ultima:
Originally posted by Cowboy:
What is this supposed "cut content"? From what I can tell, from reading and watching game play, the game has been released as advertised.

They cut the upper city content from the game, but even without it, Act 3 doesn't feel the rushed hack job these professional complainers are making it out to be. It still blows away anything else that's come out since peak Bioware.
Y'know, insulting others of being "professional complainers" because they've had bad experiences with the game, isn't really helping your case..
#36
Maverick56 Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:38am 
Originally posted by Tijger:
Originally posted by Maverick56:

I hate to break it to you.

But...

Elden Ring
Ghost of Tsushima
FF 7 Remake
Tears of the Kingdom

are all far more solid contenders for that title so far. Though I have no doubts in my mind that when Larian releases the "Definitive Edition" in 2-3 years, it will 100% be in contention.

Thinking it is currently is just silly.

None of those are eligible for GOTY in 2023 on PC. Least of all a remake.

Elden Ring already won it in 2022, Ghosts is PS only, Tears is Nintendo only.

Maybe you should consider what the GOTY title means?

Notice how the person I replied to said, Game of the Decade? Not Game of the Year?
#37
Poptart Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:39am 
Originally posted by Maverick56:
Before you head to comment something like "L take" or something let me explain.

Act 1 = Masterpiece worth of celebration.
Act 2 = A good experience with some interesting design, but slower and much more focused.
Act 3 = A buggy, unfinished, content cut, hellscape with some really cool moments sprinkled into the mix to warrant the cost of playing through it.
Ending = Piss poor and lazy.



8.3/10

(8.7 once they fix the bugs, 9+/10 if they actually add the content they cut)

A great many fantastic games have questionable endings ( some utterly failing to stick the landing, and others just being 'meh' compared to the experience ).

I'm not sure I could find a game with better voice acting than BG3. Surely one of the top 5 I've ever enjoyed.

Not everyone's going to love the game play. Tactics games are more niche than Dark Souls.

Realistically, what games do you believe should be GoTY?
#38
Xype Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:39am 
Originally posted by Tijger:
Originally posted by Xype:
That is all a matter of opinion, I love bg3 but there are people who hate it, you have to understand that it isn't a game for everyone, but for people who like this kind of tactical rpg its awesome.

Thats not the point though, every year a game is voted GOTY from a huge bunch of available games in all genres.

Elden Ring wasnt exactly a mainstream type of game either yet it won GOTY to name one from last year.
Elden Rings was very mainstream lol. Its basically a dark souls successor.

GOTY is a joke, games that deserve it rarely win it."

If you don't believe me, just look at "It takes 2" in 2021...
Last edited by Xype; Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:41am
#39
Sir Seanicus, Esq. Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:41am 
0.00 Creation Club Credits deposited into your account.

t. todd
#40
Creomortis Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:41am 
Elden ring was a very good game but also very overhyped. If you criticised it in the slightest you would have the hounds on you. It's the reason I disabled comments on my review.
#41
Maverick56 Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:41am 
Originally posted by Dr. Raven:
Originally posted by Ultima:

They cut the upper city content from the game, but even without it, Act 3 doesn't feel the rushed hack job these professional complainers are making it out to be. It still blows away anything else that's come out since peak Bioware.
Y'know, insulting others of being "professional complainers" because they've had bad experiences with the game, isn't really helping your case..

They are entitled to their own opinions, of course, I don't begrudge anyone who enjoyed Act 3.

Like I said this game is still an 8.3 in my eyes as is. I have over 200 hours in the game, meaning I enjoyed it immensely.
I just feel that a GOTY accolade should go to a game that fully delivers an enjoyable product (which it did), to it's fullest ability (which it did not), as close to it's release as possible (which it won't).
#42
zacharyb Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:43am 
It'll most likely be my GOTY unless Bethesda somehow knocks Starfield out of the park.
Last edited by zacharyb; Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:43am
#43
DontMisunderstand Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:43am 
So... the fact that you're referencing cut content as if it's not a good thing that it was cut proves you don't know the first thing about game design.
#44
Solkin Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:43am 
there so many worse goty than this, how can't it take goty ??? and what would be otherwise ? Zelda botw 2.0 ?

the arguments about cut content are invalid, you evaluate a game on what it is, and not what it could be. and what it is is already goty material.
#45
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Date Posted: Aug 31, 2023 @ 10:08am
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