act3 Wyll (spoilers) what choice did you make?

[Fistimus Maximus]

The reaction to wyll breaking his pact seems out of character, Eternal servitude...when he dies unlike others who go to whatever heavens their patron resides wyll;s will be in hell. Anyone else found it strange considering as a example how karlach shouts cant let wyll be taken then disproves.

[Fistimus Maximus]

Автор сообщения: Skobone

Автор сообщения: Fistimus Maximus

I think thats just down to limited spells/not included, You could argue they are using lesser magic to simulate said spells, With Wyll I believe like you mentioned and some other companion dialogue options you should let wyll make up his own mind. That said I also think the contract for his father's life wouldnt even be valid, same issue with descent into avernus you dont have control other someone elses life so no contract like this would be valid. Wyll wouldnt have any say other his fathers life one way or another. writers lack of understanding about what powers/control devils have. Same with karlach, she couldnt have been sold by gortash unless she had signed her soul/autonomy other to him. Taking souls unwillingly without contract is something a demon would do not a devil, they are bound my laws to only take souls who are willing or made a contract.

These instances of someone signing away someone else's soul tend to be justified by loopholes. A marriage vow such as "Do you take this person, body and soul, for better or worse...etc...etc" would theoretically grant one the authority to sell their spouse's soul. Similarly, the people of Elturel were made to swear that they would defend the city with their souls. For Karlach, all it would have taken is for her to swear herself to Gortash, which is not out of the question for a bodyguard.
At the same time, I believe that these victims could take their cases to infernal court. However, you can only dispute contracts post-mortem, once the soul is already in the hells. Additionally, devils are not obligated to inform mortals of their right to challenge their fate.

Not necessarily, only reason they can act within the material plane is because of the prior contract with asmodeus, Other heavenly opposed forces would intervene, Its the reason the material plane isnt a blazing inferno. If gods started losing petitioners they lose power reason for said limitations on what devil can do. You are right there are loopholes etc just for whatever reason the writing doesnt show this very well.

[Lamp]

I was actually really fuzzy on the details with Wyll- because you free him from the pact but they talk like it's just gonna instantly swap his soul for the Duke's life. Then later after killing Orin Wyll was all like "My father's safe, you tha man." Then wayyy after that I rescued the Duke.

So all was well, but I guess it was because of this there was no option to send Karlach to Avernus and have her actually survive. I love bg3 but that was so dumb. I was extremely ready to fight Zariel or find a way to do so.

[I'm A Distraction!]

I convinced him to break it. A pact with a devil is never a good idea, they always try to make things 'seem' like you have no choice, when in fact there's always another way. What I was annoyed by was not having a default 'no new deals, I'll wait out my contract' option.

I'm annoyed that informing his father about the true reason for him making a deal with a devil made him turn around so quickly... Like, yes, he didn't make a deal for his own personal gain, but it was still a foolish and stupid decision. Baldur's Gate has plenty of defenses, the devils likely would have tried to find some other method of stopping Tiamat's play without his soul, and failing all that, Bahamut likely would have had something to say about his rival unleashing chaos. The devils played him by making him think the only option to save the city was his soul, and his father should have been understanding, but firm that he fell for their ploy. Instead a man that was presented the entire time as a hard ass of Helm just does a complete 180?

[Fistimus Maximus]

Автор сообщения: I'm A Distraction!

I convinced him to break it. A pact with a devil is never a good idea, they always try to make things 'seem' like you have no choice, when in fact there's always another way. What I was annoyed by was not having a default 'no new deals, I'll wait out my contract' option.

I'm annoyed that informing his father about the true reason for him making a deal with a devil made him turn around so quickly... Like, yes, he didn't make a deal for his own personal gain, but it was still a foolish and stupid decision. Baldur's Gate has plenty of defenses, the devils likely would have tried to find some other method of stopping Tiamat's play without his soul, and failing all that, Bahamut likely would have had something to say about his rival unleashing chaos. The devils played him by making him think the only option to save the city was his soul, and his father should have been understanding, but firm that he fell for their ploy. Instead a man that was presented the entire time as a hard ass of Helm just does a complete 180?

Yeah I agree with you. Seemed out of character. Considering helm/followers are known for their unyielding ways. And like you mentioned baldurs gate is far from defenceless and opposing forces would have united against a real threat to the city.

[Lamp]

Автор сообщения: Fistimus Maximus

Yeah I agree with you. Seemed out of character.

Respect to BG3 but the characters do turn their feelings around way too fast.

[Fistimus Maximus]

Автор сообщения: Lamp

Автор сообщения: Fistimus Maximus

Yeah I agree with you. Seemed out of character.

Respect to BG3 but the characters do turn their feelings around way too fast.

Yeah game is great, loved what ive played just pointing out issues with writing/lore. You could achieve the same result with better writing like above post mentioned with ravenguard or possibly like karlach showing the player somehow she signed something or spoke some words etc. You just have to look at the dialogue with karlach saying zariel will never get wyll then disproving if you convince him to break the pact.

[Night Writer]

I don't know....because I "Accidentally" Thunderwaved Wyll, Gale, and Astarion into a Lava Chasm. It was sorta like there was this EPIC battle.. yeah that's it... except there were no enemies, except me, and them... and they were suddenly Kamehameha'd right off a cliff, that "they" chose to stand precariously close too. What's even more funny is that "they" decided to completely empty their inventories and hand everything to me, as well as their weapons, prior to this "ACCIDENT".

It's a story I use to pick up damsels at ye local tavern to this day.

[Fistimus Maximus]

Автор сообщения: Night Writer

I don't know....because I "Accidentally" Thunderwaved Wyll, Gale, and Astarion into a Lava Chasm. It was sorta like there was this EPIC battle.. yeah that's it... except there were no enemies, except me, and them... and they were suddenly Kamehameha'd right off a cliff, that "they" chose to stand precariously close too. What's even more funny is that "they" decided to completely empty their inventories and hand everything to me, as well as their weapons, prior to this "ACCIDENT".

It's a story I use to pick up damsels at ye local tavern to this day.

I gave astarian the same treatment with a stake, I freed him from his torment.

[Tootsy]

I don't even understand why this is a choice we as a custom character can make for Wyll. The only reason i can think they would do that is they wanted to keep the pity spree going for Wylls character and by putting the player in charge of the choice you cannot blame Wyll either way.

[Mizu]

Автор сообщения: I'm A Distraction!

I convinced him to break it. A pact with a devil is never a good idea, they always try to make things 'seem' like you have no choice, when in fact there's always another way. What I was annoyed by was not having a default 'no new deals, I'll wait out my contract' option.

I'm annoyed that informing his father about the true reason for him making a deal with a devil made him turn around so quickly... Like, yes, he didn't make a deal for his own personal gain, but it was still a foolish and stupid decision. Baldur's Gate has plenty of defenses, the devils likely would have tried to find some other method of stopping Tiamat's play without his soul, and failing all that, Bahamut likely would have had something to say about his rival unleashing chaos. The devils played him by making him think the only option to save the city was his soul, and his father should have been understanding, but firm that he fell for their ploy. Instead a man that was presented the entire time as a hard ass of Helm just does a complete 180?

Baldur's Gate probably would have survived, but how many people would have been killed and how much damage would have been caused to the city? A large scale ritual that summons an entire head of Tiamat as an aspect would have been no damned joke in terms of power if Wyll had let them finish it up instead of disrupting the ritual.

[shogunsmurf]

*grabs warhammer as dwarf paladin* I smell a lot of demon apologists here, by oath I will purge this den of demon support!

[Abisha]

lol how can this even be a discussion? he trade his soul for a deal
no matter what the deal is it's a stupid write conclusion.

only deal i would sign my soul for is living eternal without aging, teleport and regeneration ability.
other it's absolute a NO BRAINER to sell your soul.

[Lavian]

Автор сообщения: Abisha

lol how can this even be a discussion? he trade his soul for a deal
no matter what the deal is it's a stupid write conclusion.

only deal i would sign my soul for is living eternal without aging, teleport and regeneration ability.
other it's absolute a NO BRAINER to sell your soul.

Not quite. Wyll's father has a tadpole.

While Wyll consigns his soul to a literal devil with the deal, there is the risk of his father becoming a Mind Flayer, in which case, his father's soul would be destroyed. People who become Mind Flayers don't have their souls move on upon the transformation, and Mind Flayers don't have souls. It's just gone.

So, would you trade ownership of your soul to save the very existence of a soul of a loved one? Maybe.

[Abisha]

Автор сообщения: Lavian

Автор сообщения: Abisha

lol how can this even be a discussion? he trade his soul for a deal
no matter what the deal is it's a stupid write conclusion.

only deal i would sign my soul for is living eternal without aging, teleport and regeneration ability.
other it's absolute a NO BRAINER to sell your soul.

Not quite. Wyll's father has a tadpole.

While Wyll consigns his soul to a literal devil with the deal, there is the risk of his father becoming a Mind Flayer, in which case, his father's soul would be destroyed. People who become Mind Flayers don't have their souls move on upon the transformation, and Mind Flayers don't have souls. It's just gone.

So, would you trade ownership of your soul to save the very existence of a soul of a loved one? Maybe.

The players also have a tadepol in there heads do it means they also are soulless?.
so what happens to the soul? many thing's are not explained in the BG3 universe.

only thing i read and know that the Soul eater, can consume souls and would and up on the wall.

I never read DnD lore that a soul could be destroyed

[Fistimus Maximus]

Автор сообщения: Abisha

Автор сообщения: Lavian

Not quite. Wyll's father has a tadpole.

While Wyll consigns his soul to a literal devil with the deal, there is the risk of his father becoming a Mind Flayer, in which case, his father's soul would be destroyed. People who become Mind Flayers don't have their souls move on upon the transformation, and Mind Flayers don't have souls. It's just gone.

So, would you trade ownership of your soul to save the very existence of a soul of a loved one? Maybe.

The players also have a tadepol in there heads do it means they also are soulless?.
so what happens to the soul? many thing's are not explained in the BG3 universe.

only thing i read and know that the Soul eater, can consume souls and would and up on the wall.

I never read DnD lore that a soul could be destroyed

There are various beings that consume souls, demons I believe but a example is asmodeus, (non confirmed) he basicly devours souls to help regenerate and empower himself. Non believers have it rough.