We need a mode that is focusing on "immersion"

[949624421]

We need a mode that is focusing on "immersion", especially for people who enjoy playing the game in their own style. Enemies we encountered just getting stronger and stronger, even if it is just a random beggar on street, which destroys the immersion the game has created.

We don't need enemy to always be stronger, unless it is a boss or someone that is reasonable to be stronger according to the plot settings. For example, I can accept a red dragon to be at level 10, but really feel weird when I saw a bunch of random soldiers on streets are level 10 while the demon king I just killed was only level 6. It feels so bad and so non-sense that your character who just killed a demon, leveled up and got new gear equipped, then sudden got killed by a bunch of higher level thugs from random places.

[EricHVela]

In desktop D&D 5e, the CR of encounters is meant to increase with the party level. In BG3, you're meant to increase in level and meet higher CRs.

D&D has its immersive elements but also its gameplay elements. All games do that. If those gameplay pull you out of your immersion, there's really no helping that. The game is what it is.

[949624421]

It seems that I made thing a bit unclear. I might do another post later.

[Mildly Nuclear]

No I understand what you mean perfectly. What you want for the purposes of "immersion" just runs counter to the fundamental way Dungeons and Dragons has been played for decades. And this IS still a Dungeons and Dragons game. The only reason the game wastes your time with physically rolling a dice every time you roll a skill check (even if you can skip it) is to create a sense of IMMERSION that you're actually playing Dungeons and Dragons.

You want immersion so you can pretend the game world makes some sort of sense (it doesn't, Forgotten Realms is the trashiest most basic generic RPG setting, the only thing that saves this game from being that is the extra-dimensional presence of Mind Flayers and Fantasy Romulans oops I meant Githyanki). I want immersion so I can pretend this is an actual game of DnD.

We are not the same.

[FightingFirst]

I think I get you. You mean early on a group of four human soldiers should be a difficult encounter. But as you go through the campaign those 4 human soldiers should stay roughly the same level as they are just human soldiers. This will mean encountering them late game would make a relatively easy fight.

This could work, but you would then need to increase the amount of those human soldiers encountered late game to make up for their squishyness. Im not sure how well the game system could handle a hoard of level 4 human soldiers.

[Scheneighnay]

It's definitely something to look at.

Then again this system is a lot better than DnD's usual "we resisted arrest and ended up killing a quarter of the population of Baldur's Gate in the process"

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by FightingFirst:

I think I get you. You mean early on a group of four human soldiers should be a difficult encounter. But as you go through the campaign those 4 human soldiers should stay roughly the same level as they are just human soldiers. This will mean encountering them late game would make a relatively easy fight.

This could work, but you would then need to increase the amount of those human soldiers encountered late game to make up for their squishyness. Im not sure how well the game system could handle a hoard of level 4 human soldiers.

It starts to become a matter of discussing an entirely different game altogether.

If you want immersion, make it so that you don't want to attract attention, so you don't want to kill those level 4 human soldiers or else the BBEG will send his heavy hitters.
Some nobody getting arrested or running away from the guards won't attract the same amount of attention as someone casting Hunger of Hadar in the middle of the street.

But I think it's too late for that.

[Echsrick]

Originally posted by agentkido:

Originally posted by 949624421:

Firstly, the storyteller mode isn't developed well. It only lowers the difficulty of the game in general by adding additional hp to your characters. But the level scale of enemies still remains the same. For people who enjoy playing the game at their own pace, they might still facing enemies with higher levels

Secondly, I am asking for a mode focusing on "immersion", not asking for a "easier mode" Some part of the game should be harder as long as it is reasonable according to the plot settings. Ideally, the game is supposed to be really hard at early stage and get easier and easier when your character builds up. Of course, you will have stronger enemies, but that should be reasonably stronger according to the plot, not because they live in Baldur's gate.

I can accept the game to be even harder, but really feel weird when I saw a random thug I encountered on the street of Baldur' Gate was much stronger than the Githyanki general I fought for the whole night.

This is incorrect on you only getting more health in explorer mode, the enemies also do less damage, hit less often, you have more accuracy, and enemy AC is lowered.

-explorer mode is made to feel "immersed" in the story with less emphasis on tactical combat and trying to minmax best you can.
-Balance is tactical combat with a fair challenge and same story.
-Tactical is just lets buff the enemies and give a challenge to those who want it

That's the easiest way to explain the game modes, if you can't beat it on balanced then just play explorer mode, nobody is gonna chastise you because of it.

if the dice thing is true, then how come the game never says anything in the tooltips that the dice and armor and what not is highter or lowered of dificulty setting? just like how dos2 says that stats are changed because of difficulty, so i say its a claim that may not even be true at all

[PaloG]

Originally posted by FightingFirst:

I think I get you. You mean early on a group of four human soldiers should be a difficult encounter. But as you go through the campaign those 4 human soldiers should stay roughly the same level as they are just human soldiers. This will mean encountering them late game would make a relatively easy fight.

This could work, but you would then need to increase the amount of those human soldiers encountered late game to make up for their squishyness. Im not sure how well the game system could handle a hoard of level 4 human soldiers.

That's exactly how I read it too but it'd need to be balanced both ways. Auntie Ethel for example would need be balanced in a way that reflects the power of a hag which is nowhere near the level of power we face in Act 1. Nevermind the fact she just jumps up 5-6 levels in the span of weeks by the time we fight her in Act 3

Yes, it's weird that a random low ranking Flamist Fist guarding a jail cell is the same level as a centuries old Vampire or a literal high ranking Devil but so is the fact that we are such gigachads that can go from 0 to hero and slay beings far superior than us. That's why it's a fantasy game and not a training simulator

[949624421]

Originally posted by Mildly Nuclear:

No I understand what you mean perfectly. What you want for the purposes of "immersion" just runs counter to the fundamental way Dungeons and Dragons has been played for decades. And this IS still a Dungeons and Dragons game. The only reason the game wastes your time with physically rolling a dice every time you roll a skill check (even if you can skip it) is to create a sense of IMMERSION that you're actually playing Dungeons and Dragons.

You want immersion so you can pretend the game world makes some sort of sense (it doesn't, Forgotten Realms is the trashiest most basic generic RPG setting, the only thing that saves this game from being that is the extra-dimensional presence of Mind Flayers and Fantasy Romulans oops I meant Githyanki). I want immersion so I can pretend this is an actual game of DnD.

We are not the same.

Sorry I might make my point a bit unclear. I didn't mean what you said. I want it to be an actual game of DND as well. I was talking about the deeper setting of how "actual" this DND game was supposed to be.

[dustin1280]

Man the definition of "immersion" is so very different to different people...

I think this is just a long way of saying he doesn't like scaled enemies...

Even though only some enemies scale heavily, and many of them are easy to 1 shot mid-late game (for instance basic guards and towns people)...

I am not really a big fan of scaling enemies (ES IV: Oblivion was a PERFECT EXAMPLE of this)

But this game the scaling is not bad at all, and "weak enemies" are still very easy to kill and in many cases 1 shot...

[949624421]

Originally posted by FightingFirst:

I think I get you. You mean early on a group of four human soldiers should be a difficult encounter. But as you go through the campaign those 4 human soldiers should stay roughly the same level as they are just human soldiers. This will mean encountering them late game would make a relatively easy fight.

This could work, but you would then need to increase the amount of those human soldiers encountered late game to make up for their squishyness. Im not sure how well the game system could handle a hoard of level 4 human soldiers.

Yes Yes Yes. You perfectly get it! I expect them to adjust the difficulty in some other ways instead of just making the soldier stronger, which destroyed the immersion.

[ACS36]

What' you're talking about is really a failure of a computer system vs the human system of having a dungeon master control the game. Computer systems are much more limited in what they're capable of.

[Glyph]

This game is remarkably close to how combat rating is handled in 'actual' D&D. Have you looked at the stat block of anything in the monster manual? CR is all over the place.

[Friends with Benedicts]

I see you never played a pnp game with a DM before.

As you character progress and become stronger, its very common for decent DMs to increase monsters and enemies and challenges difficulties, both in numbers and in design, so the players can feel challenged and put those new skills to use.

In crpgs, the machines or AIs work as a DM. They arent as fun as a real person, but it can also provide a quite fun and more fast experience than one with an actual human, so there are pros and cons. Since the machine, at least for now, cant create scenarios on the whim as a human can (actually they work A LOT before sessions to come with questlines and npcs all ready for you to play), we rely on premeditated design choices, such as enemy positioning and leveling.

The devs could try a procedural route, but many of us prefer curated designs for these games, Tailored to each leveling. That way they can make like, even if you do ALL the quests in the first map, you wont leave it with more than 5 levels. So the max lvl monster in the first map needs only to be 4 or 5. Its a tailored experience

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by PaloG:

Originally posted by FightingFirst:

I think I get you. You mean early on a group of four human soldiers should be a difficult encounter. But as you go through the campaign those 4 human soldiers should stay roughly the same level as they are just human soldiers. This will mean encountering them late game would make a relatively easy fight.

This could work, but you would then need to increase the amount of those human soldiers encountered late game to make up for their squishyness. Im not sure how well the game system could handle a hoard of level 4 human soldiers.

That's exactly how I read it too but it'd need to be balanced both ways. Auntie Ethel for example would need be balanced in a way that reflects the power of a hag which is nowhere near the level of power we face in Act 1. Nevermind the fact she just jumps up 5-6 levels in the span of weeks by the time we fight her in Act 3

Yes, it's weird that a random low ranking Flamist Fist guarding a jail cell is the same level as a centuries old Vampire or a literal high ranking Devil but so is the fact that we are such gigachads that can go from 0 to hero and slay beings far superior than us. That's why it's a fantasy game and not a training simulator

Well we have performance enhancing bugs.