Spoilers Nightsong.

[Woldy]

"Decide nightsongs fate"
Yea, um... i cant. They wont let me. i can only free her. what BS is that? i wanted to see what would happen if i kill her and whooptydoo. Nothing. Come on.

"Well. That's just lazy writing" - Ryan Reynolds.

[PaloG]

Originally posted by Woldy:

Originally posted by TripSin:

It's not silly, though. He is right.

Sure, from a lore standpoint it makes sense but not from a gameplay standpoint. You cant even leave and bring shadowheart with you, you are not enticed to bring her, you cant be a sharr worshipper youself (You could but they removed it). It's just too... (And i hate saying it) Railroady.

Well, from a gameplay perspective this is a static campaign and not a tabletop with a live DM to make decisions on the go so the responsibility falls to the player as long as there's a clear indication. As for having SH with you Larian couldn't have made it clearer. You are in a lost Sharran temple and you have a Sharran Cleric companion who for some reason can't shut up about their Sharran worship and their aspiration to become a Dark Justiciar, which as you find early on in it is the place to do so. They might as well hang a huge banner at the entrance saying "SH's character arc". Not bringing her along isn't on the game, it's on the player. The only thing the game could have done differently is REQUIRE her to be in your party and that's even more railroady. Sure, if you could be a Sharran too that would work well but it would also clash with SH's backstory as you'd be part of the same cloister.

[Woldy]

Originally posted by PaloG:

Originally posted by Woldy:

Sure, from a lore standpoint it makes sense but not from a gameplay standpoint. You cant even leave and bring shadowheart with you, you are not enticed to bring her, you cant be a sharr worshipper youself (You could but they removed it). It's just too... (And i hate saying it) Railroady.

Well, from a gameplay perspective this is a static campaign and not a tabletop with a live DM to make decisions on the go so the responsibility falls to the player as long as there's a clear indication. As for having SH with you Larian couldn't have made it clearer. You are in a lost Sharran temple and you have a Sharran Cleric companion who for some reason can't shut up about their Sharran worship and their aspiration to become a Dark Justiciar, which as you find early on in it is the place to do so. They might as well hang a huge banner at the entrance saying "SH's character arc". Not bringing her along isn't on the game, it's on the player. The only thing the game could have done differently is REQUIRE her to be in your party and that's even more railroady. Sure, if you could be a Sharran too that would work well but it would also clash with SH's backstory as you'd be part of the same cloister.

They seem to pay pretty close attention to it throughout the game except for this one moment.

[JustSmile]

How is it not clear that area is about Shadowheart and you need her with you for a complete experience? This is an ancient Sharran temple, a centre of her worship, the very place her elite would go to undertake trials and tribulations to become her Justiciars. For two acts Shadowheart kept talking how becoming one is her greatest desire, how she must find this place, how she desperately wishes to go there and prove herself to Shar... and "I probably should take Shadowheart with me here" not once passed your mind?

It'd be like going to the Githyanki Creche without that annoying yellow toad and being confused you missed content.

[Panophobia]

Originally posted by Woldy:

you are not enticed to bring her,

If you feel like this, than you had not paid attention to a big chunk of the story.

[Woldy]

Originally posted by JustSmile:

How is it not clear that area is about Shadowheart and you need her with you for a complete experience? This is an ancient Sharran temple, a centre of her worship, the very place her elite would go to undertake trials and tribulations to become her Justiciars. For two acts Shadowheart kept talking how becoming one is her greatest desire, how she must find this place, how she desperately wishes to go there and prove herself to Shar... and "I probably should take Shadowheart with me here" not once passed your mind?

It'd be like going to the Githyanki Creche without that annoying yellow toad and being confused you missed content.

I did go to the creche without Lae'zel on my first playthrough. it changed nothing. She is still named traitor and falls in with Voss. only some dialogue is left out.

it's the same with pretty much everyone elses questlines. You are not forced to bring anyone to get a desired outcome baring Astarion if you let him ascend. And this moment. But what bugs me is not that 'I' cant kill her, to hell with that. It's that they give the illusion of a choice. I literally cannot do ANYTHING to progress unless i free Nightsong.

[Zackerie]

Originally posted by Woldy:

Originally posted by zackerie:

wow it tells you in game it won't work and yet they are still mad.

get mad at shar. she is the one who decided you can't use it. you aren't worthy.

Almost like the Goddess has a plan and it doesn't matter how devoted you are if you aren't part of that plan, she doesn't care.

see: viconia

Still feels very shallow the game tries VERY hard to make us not kill Nightsong with the dialogue, even the narrator goes "You can steer her to the light". Like, does it SEEM like i want her in the light? why are you saying this to me? i'm scumbag who hates selfrighteous zealots! why would i (roleplaywise) want to save this one?

meh I just kept my trap shut the whole time because it wasn't about me in that moment

[Woldy]

Originally posted by Panophobia:

Originally posted by Woldy:

you are not enticed to bring her,

If you feel like this, than you had not paid attention to a big chunk of the story.

I'm not enticed to bring Wyll to save his father yet it plays out just fine.
I'm not enticed to bring karlach to fight Gortash.
I'm not enticed to bring Astarion to Cazador.
etc.

Yes, there are unique dialogues and a few outcomes, but in the grand scheme of things they are not as important as this one 'choice'.

[Woldy]

Originally posted by zackerie:

Originally posted by Woldy:

Still feels very shallow the game tries VERY hard to make us not kill Nightsong with the dialogue, even the narrator goes "You can steer her to the light". Like, does it SEEM like i want her in the light? why are you saying this to me? i'm scumbag who hates selfrighteous zealots! why would i (roleplaywise) want to save this one?

meh I just kept my trap shut the whole time because it wasn't about me in that moment

Cant very well shut my trap when she's talking to me because i didn't bring shadowheart.

[Panophobia]

Originally posted by Woldy:

Originally posted by Panophobia:

If you feel like this, than you had not paid attention to a big chunk of the story.

I'm not enticed to bring Wyll to save his father yet it plays out just fine.
I'm not enticed to bring karlach to fight Gortash.
I'm not enticed to bring Astarion to Cazador.
etc.

Yes, there are unique dialogues and a few outcomes, but in the grand scheme of things they are not as important as this one 'choice'.

The difference between them, and SH, is that SH is important to the main plot in act 1 and 2. And the whole dungeon is tailored to her story.

[JustSmile]

Originally posted by Woldy:

But what bugs me is not that 'I' cant kill her, to hell with that. It's that they give the illusion of a choice. I literally cannot do ANYTHING to progress unless i free Nightsong.

You can't kill her because killing her requires divine intervention, and Shar does not give a ♥♥♥♥ about you. She spent a century and some getting "killed" on regular basis, there's reason why Ketheric is using her as a damage sponge. Not sure what do you want people to tell you - the game made it obvious the area is Shadowheart's, Ignoring that is entirely on you.

[Woldy]

Originally posted by Panophobia:

Originally posted by Woldy:

I'm not enticed to bring Wyll to save his father yet it plays out just fine.
I'm not enticed to bring karlach to fight Gortash.
I'm not enticed to bring Astarion to Cazador.
etc.

Yes, there are unique dialogues and a few outcomes, but in the grand scheme of things they are not as important as this one 'choice'.

The difference between them, and SH, is that SH is important to the main plot in act 1 and 2. And the whole dungeon is tailored to her story.

'she' is not. the Prism is. You can kill shadowheart get the prism and go on your merry way. But once you get to the sharrian temple you are stuck with a single outcome. free nightsong.

[Woldy]

Originally posted by JustSmile:

Originally posted by Woldy:

But what bugs me is not that 'I' cant kill her, to hell with that. It's that they give the illusion of a choice. I literally cannot do ANYTHING to progress unless i free Nightsong.

You can't kill her because killing her requires divine intervention, and Shar does not give a ♥♥♥♥ about you. She spent a century and some getting "killed" on regular basis, there's reason why Ketheric is using her as a damage sponge. Not sure what do you want people to tell you - the game made it obvious the area is Shadowheart's, Ignoring that is entirely on you.

you misunderstand

[aseinsha]

You totally can kill her, what are you talking about, you kill her and when you do that you plunge the entire area into darkness and Light's Hope get destroyed, get a cutscene with Shar, Shadowheart gives you a kiss (i got one at least as an option, and yeah I didn't continue pass this point but I have it saved for later)

[aseinsha]

Originally posted by Woldy:

Originally posted by big bungo ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ:

Nope. Theres a whole cut scene for it and she most definitely stays dead.

do i need shadowheart to kill her?

There is your problem.

[Ellorien]

The whole “killing Nightsong with the Spear” permanently by Shadowheart is a plot hole because every aspiring Dark Justiciar is required to complete the Gauntlet of Shar and “kill” Nightsong with the Spear of Night.
Nightsong was repeatedly “killed” with that spear for a century at least.