Ascended Astarion is not the "bad" ending.......change my mind. **spoilers**

[Kaiyas Slayter]

Have you talked with Astarion after ascending? He's happy, healthy, and secure. He also loves that he has someone at his side who accepts him and his choices, probably for the 1st time ever in his life. He feels in control of himself. He's nothing like Cazador because he isn't torturing Tav or forcing them to do things against their will. He's still a part of the party and helping fight evil after ascending. Could you see Cazador offering to help fight for Baldur's Gate after his ascension? (Or assembling a clown corpse for a pair of gloves?)

I also get BDSM vibes from letting him ascend, because Tav submits to him and he's totally a top. I get non-ascended Asterion =vanilla and ascended Asterion= BDSM top vibes from the choices but that could just be me. However, a lot of his post ascension dialogue seems like a very new, but loving dom, reveling in having power. One who wants to see his sub/spawn thrive, where he was just tortured as a sub/spawn. The cynic in me sees everyone choosing the BDSM Asterion as evil because BDSM is "evil", but I'm hoping that's just me projecting. Yes, he sees you as degrading yourself for being with him, but that's more of a "I'm not good enough and if you choose to be with me you are not good enough either" kind of dilemma.

Does he talk about wanting to control the world? Yes, but don't many of us dream of wanting to make the world a better place? Imagine if you were just given the powers of a God. Wouldn't you at least want to discuss about how you would make everything better, in your eyes, for the world? And of course he's saying these things to you (PC), because you made him feel safe. Special. You treated him better than anyone, so he's much more open with you.

Everyone always talks about the "good' and "bad" ending meaning stopping ascension or letting him ascend. But, the only thing he's ever wanted for himself, after being told what to do for 200 years, was having enough power to keep himself safe. He wants this power, he wants this safety. If you stop the ascension, you just became his new Cazador. You are now telling him what he can and cannot do. You are responsible for making all of his decisions for him, since you didn't trust him enough to make his own. Or you spend your life making him second guess himself. You're basically telling him that what he wants isn't good enough for you and you are manipulating him into living with what you want for him, not what he wants for himself. (I'm not using the word you to attack you, just as a placeholder for the PC.)

You also released 7000 vampires, with no bloodlust control and a heart full of hate after centuries of imprisonment and torture, free into the world. Also, the children are forever stuck as children which is a form of evil in itself. Or you murdered 7000 vampires to absolutely no benefit, making their suffering completely in vain.

I don't see how that's a good ending.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

It is a question of:
What is more valueable.
The souls of a few thousent strangers or my friend.

It is the bad ending because in most sane sociaties sacrificing thousends and sending them to hell for power is considered bad.
I mean i would do it in a heartbeat.
But i dont consider myself a good person.

[[Countess]Vol†z]

Originally posted by Spiceprincess:

Correct me if I'm wrong but... after you let him ascend and turn your Tav, he states that he gave them a drop of his blood during their turning. Afterwards, you can ask if he still needs to feed on Tav's blood and he says that he will and that Tav will drink his blood as well (it's not an empty promise, he just states it as a fact). So... by Vampire rules, that would mean that your Tav is canonly a true vampire from the start and it's not just a promise (even if this isn't shown in an specific cut scene). So, they aren't a spawn at least. You're right that they won't be his true equal (at least in Vampirism alone) but also puts them far from being a controlled slave in an abusive relationship. But also depends on your Tav and their personality, desires, alignment, etc.

Granted, you're also right that that doesn't mean he can't become worse or that he doesn't have the ability to control them. And he probably will become Cazador 2.0 further on down the road, but that doesn't seem to be the case at the start and that isn't a guaranteed future outcome either.

Yeah, with the out right vagueness of the endings this is the take I personally like to roll with. My character was more subtle evil so him going to hell in a hand basket was kind of the inevitable goal. At that point it becomes all head cannon, or choose your flavor or blissful ignorance. Sure, eventually a hero will come around and slay my true vampire Tav and save the world, he would very much deserve it. Once the hero of the Gate made monster, seems ironic. And at least he had some bloody evil fun traveling across Faerûn with his all powerful husband. Some undead evil power couple sh*t.

Also, bitter sweet endings aren't really my thing. But my feelings aside there is a clear morally "good" ending and ascension is not it.

[Spiceprincess]

Originally posted by MissVol†z ᴘɪᴘɪꜱ:

Yeah, with the out right vagueness of the endings this is the take I personally like to roll with. My character was more subtle evil so him going to hell in a hand basket was kind of the inevitable goal. At that point it becomes all head cannon, or choose your flavor or blissful ignorance. Sure, eventually a hero will come around and slay my true vampire Tav and save the world, he would very much deserve it. Once the hero of the Gate made monster, seems ironic. And at least he had some bloody evil fun traveling across Faerûn with his all powerful husband. Some undead evil power couple sh*t.

Also, bitter sweet endings aren't really my thing. But my feelings aside there is a clear morally "good" ending and ascension is not it.

I do love the open-endedness of it for creative purposes.
Ascended Astarion ending is not "good" at all by any moral standards, but it's not all "bad" either. At least, not for him and Tav. It's doesn't have to be the loveless power-trip union manipulated by a maniac that some seem to interpret it as, based on the things he actually says and does and the nuances and hidden contexts of those things. So looking at it that way, it could still be "good" in a way.
But a "good" character certainly wouldn't choose to let him ascend or be tethered to him.

And my Tav is similar. She had nothing to lose (no family, no prospects, no home) and is fully content to spend forever with her lord, the only man she'll ever submit to. But she'll probably suffer a similar fate as your Tav in some way lmao

[Harley♥Quinn]

After helping him make choice to NOT ascend he later thanked me in camp for saving him from himself. I think him not ascending is better ending. I also did not romance him either. I romanced Gale.

[Meishuu]

Originally posted by Kaiyas Slayter:

Have you talked with Astarion after ascending? He's happy, healthy, and secure. He also loves that he has someone at his side who accepts him and his choices, probably for the 1st time ever in his life. He feels in control of himself. He's nothing like Cazador because he isn't torturing Tav or forcing them to do things against their will. He's still a part of the party and helping fight evil after ascending. Could you see Cazador offering to help fight for Baldur's Gate after his ascension? (Or assembling a clown corpse for a pair of gloves?)

I also get BDSM vibes from letting him ascend, because Tav submits to him and he's totally a top. I get non-ascended Asterion =vanilla and ascended Asterion= BDSM top vibes from the choices but that could just be me. However, a lot of his post ascension dialogue seems like a very new, but loving dom, reveling in having power. One who wants to see his sub/spawn thrive, where he was just tortured as a sub/spawn. The cynic in me sees everyone choosing the BDSM Asterion as evil because BDSM is "evil", but I'm hoping that's just me projecting. Yes, he sees you as degrading yourself for being with him, but that's more of a "I'm not good enough and if you choose to be with me you are not good enough either" kind of dilemma.

Does he talk about wanting to control the world? Yes, but don't many of us dream of wanting to make the world a better place? Imagine if you were just given the powers of a God. Wouldn't you at least want to discuss about how you would make everything better, in your eyes, for the world? And of course he's saying these things to you (PC), because you made him feel safe. Special. You treated him better than anyone, so he's much more open with you.

Everyone always talks about the "good' and "bad" ending meaning stopping ascension or letting him ascend. But, the only thing he's ever wanted for himself, after being told what to do for 200 years, was having enough power to keep himself safe. He wants this power, he wants this safety. If you stop the ascension, you just became his new Cazador. You are now telling him what he can and cannot do. You are responsible for making all of his decisions for him, since you didn't trust him enough to make his own. Or you spend your life making him second guess himself. You're basically telling him that what he wants isn't good enough for you and you are manipulating him into living with what you want for him, not what he wants for himself. (I'm not using the word you to attack you, just as a placeholder for the PC.)

You also released 7000 vampires, with no bloodlust control and a heart full of hate after centuries of imprisonment and torture, free into the world. Also, the children are forever stuck as children which is a form of evil in itself. Or you murdered 7000 vampires to absolutely no benefit, making their suffering completely in vain.

I don't see how that's a good ending.

This is the most delusional thing I’ve read in a while. I bet you’re the kind of woman who ends up in an abusive relationship.
His writer already said which one is the good ending anyway.

[Meishuu]

Originally posted by Mizu:

Wait until the honeymoon period is over a Tav manages to disappoint Astarion somehow. Hints of what will be coming can be seen if you try to break up with him while he is the ascended vampire. And the fact he is keeping you at a mere spawn who happens to have to follow his every order instead of immediately bumping you up to full vampire lord and something resembling an equal is also an alarm bell.

Shhh… they’ll find ways to keep deluding themselves anyway.

[Notch]

Originally posted by Kaiyas Slayter:

Or you murdered 7000 vampires to absolutely no benefit, making their suffering completely in vain.

I don't see how that's a good ending.

Umm murdering vampires is a benefit. That's a good ending no doubt.

[Argonaut]

Convince you?

Vampires are undead. Undead subsist off of negative energy. Negative energy is inherently malicious and evil in the way the dead three wish they could be. It is canonically impossible to resist or prevent negative energy from corrupting those who use it let alone those that subsist of it.

Allowing anyone to become a vampire ascendant is a bad idea. They are incapable of being even neutral in the long run and they have infinite time to be corrupted beyond recognition by negative energy.

[Amirit]

Not sure why people keep saying a non-ascending path means 7000 vampires are released. You have the option to kill them all (Astarion does it himself and has the loveliest sincerest thing to say to hunters after that), leave them there (hunters will take care of them) OR, yes, release them (then hunters will have to hunt them all first). Releasing vampires is just an option.

The non-ascending path does feel much sweeter but I would say too sweet, unbelievably for both character and writing. Like Disney's mermaid compared to the original fairy tale. And there are so many "you are perfect" lines from him there, it's borderline fanfic cringe.

[id795078477]

The best ending is to kill the 7001 vampire spawn,

[Tomas Mac Mordain]

Ascended Astarion is primarily bad in execution. He gets a slightly better bite from 'Ascending' to a higher ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ plane of existence... The rest of his superpowers will develop in time, of course. Just not in this game. They should have made a change that makes a very noticeable difference in how he operates. So yeah. Acended Astarion is morally whatever, but in execution, it's... bad.

[SpicyNika]

I know it's been a month since this was posted but please answer me cuz I'm about to have a mental breakdown lol I got spoiled that if you give him the "good ending", at the very end of the game, when he's no longer able to walk under the sun, the narrator says you'll probably won't see him again.... WHAT THE F IS THAT? Like, I'm romancing him what do you mean I won't see him again? :(

[annidelaney]

Somebody said if you cast detect thoughts on him after he ascends he thinks less of you and that you're degrading yourself by being with him. That's enough for me not to do it lol

[ChaosBunny]

I do agree with most of this and honestly what people deem good or bad is honestly subjective. And the devide people are making with the choice is based on what would be seen as socially acceptable. Personally I prefer ascended astarion but I enjoy the evil aspects he has and the over all possessiveness that is exactly like dom. To each their own honestly

[victorvnv]

Ascended Dark Urge is also not a bad ending, making up with your father who supported you all the way by sending a butler to keep an eye on you as well as giving you gifts for doing your job as the Son of House Bhaal as well as offering you to inherit it all one day. How is embracing your disfunctional family a bad thing ?

Family over all