Ascended Astarion is not the "bad" ending.......change my mind. **spoilers**

[Kaiyas Slayter]

Have you talked with Astarion after ascending? He's happy, healthy, and secure. He also loves that he has someone at his side who accepts him and his choices, probably for the 1st time ever in his life. He feels in control of himself. He's nothing like Cazador because he isn't torturing Tav or forcing them to do things against their will. He's still a part of the party and helping fight evil after ascending. Could you see Cazador offering to help fight for Baldur's Gate after his ascension? (Or assembling a clown corpse for a pair of gloves?)

I also get BDSM vibes from letting him ascend, because Tav submits to him and he's totally a top. I get non-ascended Asterion =vanilla and ascended Asterion= BDSM top vibes from the choices but that could just be me. However, a lot of his post ascension dialogue seems like a very new, but loving dom, reveling in having power. One who wants to see his sub/spawn thrive, where he was just tortured as a sub/spawn. The cynic in me sees everyone choosing the BDSM Asterion as evil because BDSM is "evil", but I'm hoping that's just me projecting. Yes, he sees you as degrading yourself for being with him, but that's more of a "I'm not good enough and if you choose to be with me you are not good enough either" kind of dilemma.

Does he talk about wanting to control the world? Yes, but don't many of us dream of wanting to make the world a better place? Imagine if you were just given the powers of a God. Wouldn't you at least want to discuss about how you would make everything better, in your eyes, for the world? And of course he's saying these things to you (PC), because you made him feel safe. Special. You treated him better than anyone, so he's much more open with you.

Everyone always talks about the "good' and "bad" ending meaning stopping ascension or letting him ascend. But, the only thing he's ever wanted for himself, after being told what to do for 200 years, was having enough power to keep himself safe. He wants this power, he wants this safety. If you stop the ascension, you just became his new Cazador. You are now telling him what he can and cannot do. You are responsible for making all of his decisions for him, since you didn't trust him enough to make his own. Or you spend your life making him second guess himself. You're basically telling him that what he wants isn't good enough for you and you are manipulating him into living with what you want for him, not what he wants for himself. (I'm not using the word you to attack you, just as a placeholder for the PC.)

You also released 7000 vampires, with no bloodlust control and a heart full of hate after centuries of imprisonment and torture, free into the world. Also, the children are forever stuck as children which is a form of evil in itself. Or you murdered 7000 vampires to absolutely no benefit, making their suffering completely in vain.

I don't see how that's a good ending.

[Lamp]

Nice try Astarion, we're not ascending you.

[Razorblade]

Originally posted by Kaiyas Slayter:

You also released 7000 vampires, with no bloodlust control and a heart full of hate after centuries of imprisonment and torture, free into the world. Also, the children are forever stuck as children which is a form of evil in itself. Or you murdered 7000 vampires to absolutely no benefit, making their suffering completely in vain.

I don't see how that's a good ending.

The "good ending" is mercy killing all the vampire spawn. Sacrificing them to ascend Astarion damns their souls to the Hells, which occurs to me as a pretty evil thing to do. It would be one thing if they just died, but an eternity of torment is another.

[Glyph]

There are no unequivocal good endings here. You either replace one monster with one you know, kill 7000 innocent monsters, or set them free to wreak havoc.

[Puffing Magic Dragon]

You don't owe those 7k vampires anything I would just end them even on a good play through lol

[alex010300]

Astarion's Attitude became very bad after he Ascended

[Mizu]

Wait until the honeymoon period is over a Tav manages to disappoint Astarion somehow. Hints of what will be coming can be seen if you try to break up with him while he is the ascended vampire. And the fact he is keeping you at a mere spawn who happens to have to follow his every order instead of immediately bumping you up to full vampire lord and something resembling an equal is also an alarm bell.

[Kaiyas Slayter]

Originally posted by dcalebh:

Wait until the honeymoon period is over a Tav manages to disappoint Astarion somehow. Hints of what will be coming can be seen if you try to break up with him while he is the ascended vampire. And the fact he is keeping you at a mere spawn who happens to have to follow his every order instead of immediately bumping you up to full vampire lord and something resembling an equal is also an alarm bell.

He does promise to make you a full vampire, which is more than Cazador promised him. (Now that I think about it, I haven't tried to bite him with the drow twins although it is an option. I wonder if he stops you. Because that should ascend you to full vampire, yes? Or does it only work if he wants it to?)

To be fair, Astarion is nothing but red flags. And most people don't react well to being broken up with. Hell, judging from the ID channel, breaking up with a human can get you murdered.

His reactions to breaking up with him either pre or post ascension seems pretty much the same though, he reacts badly. Because rejections sucks.

[Kaiyas Slayter]

Originally posted by Lamp:

Nice try Astarion, we're not ascending you.

No? My pet, just think of all the...delicious...things I could do for you with that power.

[Kaiyas Slayter]

Originally posted by Puffing Magic Dragon:

You don't owe those 7k vampires anything I would just end them even on a good play through lol

Aren't you just...succulent. =D

[Kaiyas Slayter]

Originally posted by Razorblade:

Originally posted by Kaiyas Slayter:

You also released 7000 vampires, with no bloodlust control and a heart full of hate after centuries of imprisonment and torture, free into the world. Also, the children are forever stuck as children which is a form of evil in itself. Or you murdered 7000 vampires to absolutely no benefit, making their suffering completely in vain.

I don't see how that's a good ending.

The "good ending" is mercy killing all the vampire spawn. Sacrificing them to ascend Astarion damns their souls to the Hells, which occurs to me as a pretty evil thing to do. It would be one thing if they just died, but an eternity of torment is another.

Where does it say it damns their souls to the hells? I'm not arguing, I just don't remember seeing that in my playthrough. I thought the ritual just killed them.

[Mizu]

Originally posted by Kaiyas Slayter:

Originally posted by dcalebh:

Wait until the honeymoon period is over a Tav manages to disappoint Astarion somehow. Hints of what will be coming can be seen if you try to break up with him while he is the ascended vampire. And the fact he is keeping you at a mere spawn who happens to have to follow his every order instead of immediately bumping you up to full vampire lord and something resembling an equal is also an alarm bell.

He does promise to make you a full vampire, which is more than Cazador promised him. (Now that I think about it, I haven't tried to bite him with the drow twins although it is an option. I wonder if he stops you. Because that should ascend you to full vampire, yes? Or does it only work if he wants it to?)

To be fair, Astarion is nothing but red flags. And most people don't react well to being broken up with. Hell, judging from the ID channel, breaking up with a human can get you murdered.

His reactions to breaking up with him either pre or post ascension seems pretty much the same though, he reacts badly. Because rejections sucks.

Not if you were dumb enough to agree to become his thrall it isn't. He happily makes it clear you are his slave now.

https://youtu.be/9Sc0aFeAIag?t=39

[Razorblade]

Originally posted by Kaiyas Slayter:

Where does it say it damns their souls to the hells? I'm not arguing, I just don't remember seeing that in my playthrough. I thought the ritual just killed them.

The scroll you find in Cazador's quarters describing the ritual explains that it is a deal to provide a devil with 7000 souls in exchange for Ascension.

[wei270]

Originally posted by Razorblade:

Originally posted by Kaiyas Slayter:

Where does it say it damns their souls to the hells? I'm not arguing, I just don't remember seeing that in my playthrough. I thought the ritual just killed them.

The scroll you find in Cazador's quarters describing the ritual explains that it is a deal to provide a devil with 7000 souls in exchange for Ascension.

i though the ascension is red mage magic you get from unlocking the necro book

[Devitancotia]

I find this quiet interesting too, let alone a Vampire Ascendant is something of a sort itself just like the dead three as gods. And it is for him to be successful as he wanted.

But the implication here seems to be more complex then the case at hand. For the scene, I do think somewhat give it to him is 'right', however whether it is preference or simply just, the fact is leaning towards 'power is a transformer'. If he giving it up, Astarion would reflect " To do it is to give up everything I've learned from you this far" something like this. And everyone to this focus on "He kept his soul, didn't lose himself"
(add: Boo stands out here, to Astarion did it he would say "He got all this power, but I still see this tiny little coward" like that. If Astarion give it up he would say "To give up all that.. But I saw true strength in it" like that.

And if he did do it, Astarion then does seem transformed "I'm not so sure about that, every blood composition is changed" like that he said. Then proceed to show a zeal about securing his vampiric position like grow a 'family' just like Cazador did and dominate everything, even tho he is ascended and free from any vampire conditions.

The other thing is the whole ascend thing is in fact a contract with Mephistopheles? I'm more a outsider comes to dnd settings but basing on in game facts, it would the so call Vampire Ascendant is but better devil pawn.

[mitchincredible]

Astarion has zero character development - I wouldn't trust him with any amount of power and certainly not kill people to give it to him