Divine Intervention and Karlach

[Mimic]

I shouldn't have to say SPOILERS given that this is a place for discussion of the game but there it is. Major SPOILERS ahead.

I am currently unable to post on Larian forums since my VPN makes the system think i am a spam bot so if someone could cross post this i would very much appreciate it.

I am currently in Act 3 playing a Life Cleric of Lathander. I have specifically saved my Divine Intervention feature for a moment that it is needed.

After defeating Gortash we have a conversation with Karlach where she rightfully is freaking out about her imminent death.

During this conversation i receive a Cleric only option where we pray together and Karlach asks if the gods are even listening to my character.

WHERE THE F*** IS MY *DIVINE INTERVENTION* CONVERSATION OPTION!!!

There is no DM in the damn world who would deny a Cleric this opportunity to solve this problem. I can understand not being able to help other characters. Gale is tied to Mystra, Wyll sold his soul, but Karlach did not sell her soul and is not tied to a higher power.

I can think of multiple ways the the *players* could solve this problem in PNP but to deny a Cleric the ability to use Divine Intervention in a strictly RP way is an absolute travesty.

I am not lying when i say that if i wasn't literally off to kill the Elder Brain and thus end the game as my immediate next goal then i would quit playing until a *MOD* released that fixed this crap. It is that stupid and immersion breaking to me.

PLEASE give Clerics the ability to save Karlach via Divine Intervention. I don't care if it's restricted to specific gods and/or the Main Character but it absolutely needs to happen.

[Mimic]

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

Publicado originalmente por Kamiyama:

Agree. A cleric should be able to use divine intervention to save Karlach.

What happens if you reroll Karlach and make her a level 10 cleric?

Karlach has an history and it won't move whatever class you would change her. The game adapts to your decisions but not to this point or it will ruin the story.

It's not even that big of a adaption which is what pisses me off. Give us a generic happy ending and a Cleric dialog option if the player hasn't used Divine Intervention. Is it really so much work to add a few lines of text?

[paladin765]

Publicado originalmente por steelcoresoviet:

Part of the tragedy of Karlach is she's faithless. She has not chosen a divine patron, and thus no one has claim over her soul.

So realistically, you'd first have to convert her to your worship (Lathander would be one of the easy ones, fwiw) then the deity would have to choose to intervene.

If using the 5th edition deities...
Bahamut would do it. He would be all over helping her if it came down to it. And she would be perfect as a newborn platinum knight

[Action Man]

Just as a question - with this type of fix, could I respec to Cleric, use DI, then swap back? :)

Larian seems pretty set on Karlach's fate, so I doubt they'd allow in any ways around it. I say this because maybe my luck will hold true in game studios contradicting me. It worked for Dragon's Dogma II.

[Mimic]

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

Publicado originalmente por Mimic:

Well if you follow the threads regarding Karlach ending, a lot of people aren't taking it well.

While i appreciate the idea, Larian wouldn't split his player base by giving the choice to only one class to save a beloved companion of many. Marketing wise it wouldn't be a good idea.

Now if the others classes needed to work harder than the clerics for the same result yes it would balanced it out.

I am not arguing for only Clerics to be able to save her. I am arguing for Cleric MC's who have not used Divine Intervention to be given the option to save her using it.

If other Classes have a path to save Karlach using a different method then good for them. My only hope is that it is a method that makes sense and that some paths don't have the option.

[Grumpy]

Publicado originalmente por Mimic:

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

Karlach has an history and it won't move whatever class you would change her. The game adapts to your decisions but not to this point or it will ruin the story.

It's not even that big of a adaption which is what pisses me off. Give us a generic happy ending and a Cleric dialog option if the player hasn't used Divine Intervention. Is it really so much work to add a few lines of text?

My take is that Larian did an artistic choice for Karlach but it didn't get the reception they wanted. They actually made her so likable that people have a visceral emotion at the end when they can't save her.

Their choice was about the acceptance of death and learning to let it go but i think it's too hard for some audiences.

[Mimic]

Publicado originalmente por Action Man:

Just as a question - with this type of fix, could I respec to Cleric, use DI, then swap back? :)

Larian seems pretty set on Karlach's fate, so I doubt they'd allow in any ways around it. I say this because maybe my luck will hold true in game studios contradicting me. It worked for Dragon's Dogma II.

Preferably it would require the player to be a Cleric MC from the start of the game but exploits and work around's are the norm for gaming so i would settle for just being able to do it.

[Mimic]

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

Publicado originalmente por Mimic:

It's not even that big of a adaption which is what pisses me off. Give us a generic happy ending and a Cleric dialog option if the player hasn't used Divine Intervention. Is it really so much work to add a few lines of text?

My take is that Larian did an artistic choice for Karlach but it didn't get the reception they wanted. They actually made her so likable that people have a visceral emotion at the end when they can't save her.

Their choice was about the acceptance of death and learning to let it go but i think it's too hard for some audiences.

Don't we already have this with Gale? He is already doomed due to the orb in his chest and being beholden to Mystra no other god is going to get involved. Outside of selling his soul to a devil he is f'ed. (My character path has not involved Gale that much so i don't know what possibilities his story holds)

[Zackerie]

when you meet karlach's parents in the graveyard she talks about not having any faith at all, basically meaning she ends up as a wall when she dies. It would be nice RP to let divine intervention help as well as introduce her to a faith of sorts.

[Mizu]

Publicado originalmente por Mimic:

Publicado originalmente por Mizu:

She is faithless and gods in D&D really hate people who are faithless since they need the faith of the faithful to keep existing. A cleric is going to have an uphill struggle convincing their patron to go out of their way to spend that kind of divine mojo on someone who has essentially declared that they want the gods to go ♥♥♥♥ off and die of starvation by opting out of worship completely.

Karlach is not faithless she has just lost hope that anyone or anything can save her. There is a difference between those who don't believe the gods help mortals and those who believe the gods are not real.

If just acknowledging that beings known as gods exist was all it took to avoid being declared faithless then the concept of the faithless wouldn't even exist. You have to actively pick one as a patron and make an effort to follow their teachings to generate the kind of faith they need to survive. From what I can tell based on her dialogue Karlach refuses to do so on principle because she is pissed at how one sided the relationship between gods and their worshipers seems to be (in her experience). She isn't interested in hearing about how gods have to keep their direct interventions minimal and by the book if they don't want Ao to crack down on them and so mostly work through the hands of their mortal followers, she just cares that they don't intervene directly and thats that.

[Grumpy]

Publicado originalmente por Mimic:

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

My take is that Larian did an artistic choice for Karlach but it didn't get the reception they wanted. They actually made her so likable that people have a visceral emotion at the end when they can't save her.

Their choice was about the acceptance of death and learning to let it go but i think it's too hard for some audiences.

Don't we already have this with Gale? He is already doomed due to the orb in his chest and being beholden to Mystra no other god is going to get involved. Outside of selling his soul to a devil he is f'ed. (My character path has not involved Gale that much so i don't know what possibilities his story holds)

Well Gale has the possibility open to him very quickly while his former lover is brough into the mix. You can sense there's something going on, something that can help him.

For karlach you crash into the wall really quickly. No gods involves, not even devils and one of the best smiths tell you no mortal tools exist to help us.

If i could compare to a real life situation, Gale has cancer but he can be cured through chemio where as Karlach learns she has an incurable disease that will kill her slowly but surely.