BG4 should be made by OwlCat or tactical adventures...

[Fast]

If you want to see a true to form 5e in video game format.
To clarify I enjoyed and still enjoy BG3 for what it is.
The aesthetic quality , visuals, audio, and general level of presentation is really good.
But it does come with problems mechanically, system wise, and general gameplay related problems start to become more prevalent the more times you play and the game slowly becomes undone at a mechanical level in particular .

Larian did a neat job of BG3, but I think some of the liberties they took with some of the rules, undermine the game a little, I also don't like how they used the same formula to make BG3 that they used with DOS1/2 and ended up with a D&D INSPIRED DOS3 game with Baldurs Gate slapped on as the title.

I think from the perspective of the ruleset, they went too far into extreme homebrew territory and lacked the ambition to keep the ruleset in play for the majority of the game.
By doing this it would have tightened up the mechanics, and combat considerably.

From the perspective of narrativestory telling, its a railroaded one shot in game form at best and at worst, its a weak narrative with poor characters the leans on crude, unfunny humour, poor writing and a lack of understanding of the relevance and prevalence of the illithids and their purpose within D&D. The lack of "adventuring" , dungeon delving, optional areas, exploration and non linear pathing, really does undermine what it is to play a D&D campaign. But at the same time, its entertaining enough to keep you interested to the end if not for the simple fact by the end of act one youve probably invested 20 hours or so..

With regards to combat....its basically DOS3 with lightly inspired D&D combat, spell lists and action economy wrapped in a blanket of DOS style mechanics and systems.

Encounter design is all over the place, whilst I understand challenge rating isnt the best system for a video game, its a hell of a lot better than what we got here, an extremely basic amount of monster diversity where undead and basic humanoids/goblinoids make up around 90% of the games encounters....there are only a few encounters with monsters which is just not good enough. Not to mention the lack of challenge and properly build encounters to challenge parties in the higher difficulties.
600 monsters between the MM and MMoM and there is around 40 total in this small one shot.

So with this being the case, I would prefer if another studio were to make future titles in the D&D space. Larian whilst they did a stellar job at making a new DOS game, it is ...a much weaker baldurs gate title.

[Zef]

Originally posted by Aye Harambe:

Originally posted by Kozzy - Baldur's Gate!:

Meh, Pillars Of Eternity 2 Deadfire was the game that felt the most like a BG game to me. Pathfinder games are fun but so dang buggy

Pathfinder will always be my one true love. Being able to stack skills however you wanted, to ludicrous extremes, feels exactly how these games were meant to be played.

And that's exactly why I hate pathfinder games and the old BG2 combat.

Larian proves that D&D doesn't need to be daunting to get into to, something that Owlcat forgets for D&D rule purism.

[Dapm Maxoc]

Really? If you don't like the game, go play another one. Why waste time on useless whining? Unfortunately, OwlCat is an unknown office that will not be allowed to touch such a well-known and hyped universe, especially now, after the release of BG3, which is 100 times better than all the OwlCat projects combined. Just accept it and play quietly in a corner in what you like. There is no need to impose your worthless opinion on people.

[ScuffedOni]

Originally posted by AlmostFree:

I would rather the success of BG3 lead to Owlcat getting bigger budgets than try to tear down the developer that just brought RPG's back to the mainstream.

EDIT oh its Fast....well still trolling I see....

RPG's have been in the main stream though? Cyberpunk, Wither 3: Wild Hunt, Undertale, Demon Souls, Elden Ring, Red Dead Redemption 2 etc. They just haven't been as massive as brainless CoD and other shooters. Which if you give this game a month or two, it won't be either.

Originally posted by SolviteSekai:

this is a dating simulator, not a DnD game.

Your issue is you didnt realize this going in.

The vast majority of this games playerbase are playing it for the waifu/husbando dating scenes. It's why everyone refuses to leave act 1.

How dare you speak facts in this steam discussion topic! Burn the witch! /s

[Crusader993]

Originally posted by Fast:

BG4 should be made by OwlCat...

That would make me happy. :)

However, Owlcat is currently busy with its new project until 2024: Rogue Trader. I'm already looking forward to that. :))

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Well, Obsidian will always be a better candidate than Owlcat if the purpose is to bring back the mechanics of the first games. With what they did recently with Pentiment and with Avowed looking quite good, they're far above what Larian or Owlcat can currently offer. Now, they're pretty busy.

[Valtaya]

Originally posted by larhtas:

Oh i completely agree with that. Basically you can write anything you want with the "to my opinion/to me" mention. It is not what OP is saying. Solasta has made a even truest DD5 to my opinion, why OP mention only Owlcat which has 0 experience with BG3 in BG3 forum?

I think it "should" be common sense to realize, that everything on public internet forums is actualy just "my opinion" without extra mentioning it. But "should" and "is" are two different states :D. Maybe he did not play Solasta, are does not find it "mentionworthy"? I played Solasta, for 30min, before I requested a refund, technicaly it is just a 5e based combat simulator, no RPG in a broader sense, at least to me D&D combat is an addendum and not a core element, thus Solasta was nothing for me. Maybe it is the same. Why he mentions Owlcat I do not know, well they made a full 1:1 conversion of Pathfinder into their game, though they forgot it is a CRPG and such a 1:1 converstion does not realy work. Gues he sees it differently, I wonder why he havent mentioned Pillars of Destiny. Hm. Why he wrote her and now on the Pathfinder forums, well, he used it as comparison only, his whole point is centered around BG3, Owlcat is just an example.

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by Aye Harambe:

Pathfinder will always be my one true love. Being able to stack skills however you wanted, to ludicrous extremes, feels exactly how these games were meant to be played.

Result of such design: Total boredom butter combats, what's weird is you like that when there's a ton of combats.

But yeah a significant amount of RPG players are like you, they don't care of combats, they are here only to prove how great is their build by steamrolling the game.

But that approach of RPG combats is no way from a majority, that's exactly why Pathfinder will never achieve anything but for a small niche, or the 2e will change everything and will stop what you like so much.

Yes most tabletop / pen&paper RPG players do not care about combat. However your second statement is wrong, when you got a GM read at you for 2 hours, a little bit of combat is a welcome change. But as you said, combat is not important, so when they can use the RPGs rules to steamroll the combat, it is ok for them. After all, combat is just an afterthought, an addedum, not a core element of tabletop / pen&paper RPGs and certainly not the reason why people play it.

On the other hand, for the general audience combat IS a core element and have to be interesting and challenging. The question is, what direction should the CRPG take? You see, when you come to a certain "stage" in your life, tabletop / pen&paper sessions become harder and harder to realize. For this people, CRPGs based on tabletop / pen&paper, are meant to replace their "circles" so they can still enjoy what they like. Games like BG, BG2, NWN, NWN2, Planescape Torment or Dragon Age Origin delivered on that. RPGs were a niche product for a niche audience. But as it is with everything nowadays, the "wider audience" spread their claws and evinced their interest, for companies it is quite simple: do I make a game where I get only 1 million customers, or a game where I get 5 million... well the answer is simple. In the end it does not matter, companies can do what they want. But in the eyes of tabletop / pen&paper RPG players, BG3 is not D&D and Larian better leave it be, if they want to continue that way. They are upset because the "wider audience" hijacked yet another "genre". There is absolutely nothing that anyone can ever say to convice them, and yes me too, that BG3 is a great D&D RPG game. However BG3 is actualy a quite good game in its own "genre" (the genre to deliver a RPG like story/setting with interesting combat). Some people like it, some dont.

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

Well, Obsidian will always be a better candidate than Owlcat if the purpose is to bring back the mechanics of the first games. With what they did recently with Pentiment and with Avowed looking quite good, they're far above what Larian or Owlcat can currently offer. Now, they're pretty busy.

Obsidian is a good studio, but no need to let the hype run wild. If you look at like Outer Worlds their all time peak on steam was like 20k+ Fallout New Vegas more than doubled that, even people praised Outer Worlds for be a worthy successor...

[Valtaya]

Of course not, Obsidian makaes games for a niche audience. Larian took that niche and made it for a wider audience, but the "niche" does not like it. Obsidian is, what BioWare used to be 20 years ago, a part of this "niche" and so they keep making games for this "niche", so will those games ever be bigger? I doubt it, but do they have to be?

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Valtaya:

Of course not, Obsidian makaes games for a niche audience. Larian took that niche and made it for a wider audience, but the "niche" does not like it. Obsidian is, what BioWare used to be 20 years ago, a part of this "niche" and so they keep making games for this "niche", so will those games ever be bigger? I doubt it, but do they have to be?

Also, Obsidian is no longer their own boss. They are now the lapdogs of Phill Spencer and "Microsoft Gaming".... They can get access to more IP's this way, but their freedom is limited to being puppets pulled by strings -)

[Punished Jeremy]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

Well, Obsidian will always be a better candidate than Owlcat if the purpose is to bring back the mechanics of the first games. With what they did recently with Pentiment and with Avowed looking quite good, they're far above what Larian or Owlcat can currently offer. Now, they're pretty busy.

Obsidian is a good studio, but no need to let the hype run wild. If you look at like Outer Worlds their all time peak on steam was like 20k+ Fallout New Vegas more than doubled that, even people praised Outer Worlds for be a worthy successor...

People praised outer worlds at launch. Now the general sentiment is that it was underwhelming

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Punished Jeremy:

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Obsidian is a good studio, but no need to let the hype run wild. If you look at like Outer Worlds their all time peak on steam was like 20k+ Fallout New Vegas more than doubled that, even people praised Outer Worlds for be a worthy successor...

People praised outer worlds at launch. Now the general sentiment is that it was underwhelming

I think it could have been so much more. I felt they did kinda chicken out a little. Also making it a EG exclusive didn't earn them any favors either.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

All audience products suffer from standardization and BG3 is a pretty standardized product as it brings absolutely nothing new to RPG. Plus, all audience products, especially in gaming, have the most boring mechanics as they have to be suitable to everybody (Monopoly, UNO,...). And BG3 is boring, like DoS, because there's too much easy and useless fighting (Heroes of Steel does it better than Larian)

Niche games are the best because they're specialized. Either you like the niche, either you don't, but overall they satisfy the players a lot more than all audience games (which are rarely finished or suffer from their reputation like Monopoly, UNO,...). Plus, "all audience" is pretty volatile, which means the next game has a pretty good chance to be a commercial failure.

That's why for Baldur's Gate Obsidian is better than Larian. BG is a niche franchise that didn't need to be known by all audience, and a niche developer is therefore far better.

[Punished Jeremy]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Originally posted by Punished Jeremy:

People praised outer worlds at launch. Now the general sentiment is that it was underwhelming

I think it could have been so much more. I felt they did kinda chicken out a little. Also making it a EG exclusive didn't earn them any favors either.

Well most importantly everyone was disappointed in fallout 4 for failing to live up to new Vegas and then everyone was excited for outer worlds to be new Vegas 2, and it was somehow worse than fallout 4 in the same criteria

[Donald Darko]

5e is watered down 3.5e

I would hope that Owlcat would have more sense than to move backwards in game development by tackling a 5e game when Pathfinder and 3.5e mechanics are just so much better.

[Macwin_Twitch]

I respect your opinon but just like SKELETON GUY SAYS :

" NO "

I not only want Larian to make BG4 but i want them to also make Never winter nights 3