question about VICIOUS MOCKERY spell

[Mansour]

i believe this spell is only bard spell but its a wisdom save spell. isn't that bad thing for bard? considering bard class is a charisma class or do people also try to but points to wisdom as well. i'm asking because it felt weird that a spell that fit the idea of the bard class so well only to find out its a wisdom spell. i'm asking mostly because i want to know about other spells in general that i don't have ability points on them so try not to use them or am i doing it wrong?

[Professor Hugedix]

That means your target adds their wisdom modifier to their roll to resist your spell

[HandyVac]

Wisdom save means the the enemy rolls using *their* WIS to try and resist the effects of your spell.

The save DC of your spells (i.e. how high the enemy needs to roll to resist it) as a bard depends on your CHA.

[sofia ciel]

i could be wrong, but i think it means that they're rolling their WIS versus your CHA, so no, you don't really need to treat WIS as your #2 stat.

Generally WIS saves are done as checks against things that shake a person's resolve, like striking fear into them or being manipulated, so a cantrip like Vicious Mockery that's about mentally beaming in a sharp barb into the enemy's mind to throw them off their game makes sense as a thing that requires rolling based on your WIS stat.

[Mansour]

Originally posted by HandyVac:

Wisdom save means the the enemy rolls using *their* WIS to try and resist the effects of your spell.

The save DC of your spells (i.e. how high the enemy needs to roll to resist it) as a bard depends on your CHA.

wait hold on so the "save throw" system in in spells is about the spell ability which is wisdom on this example vs my charisma? not my wisdom?.......
so there wisdom vs my charisma not there wisdom vs my wisdom?

[Mirri]

Yeah, the save is made by the person you cast it on, and they will use their wisdom. It's a good thing to keep in mind since you can examine creatures and see which ones have high wisdom and which don't. That will give you an idea of who best to cast it on.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by krauser:

Originally posted by HandyVac:

Wisdom save means the the enemy rolls using *their* WIS to try and resist the effects of your spell.

The save DC of your spells (i.e. how high the enemy needs to roll to resist it) as a bard depends on your CHA.

wait hold on so the "save throw" system in in spells is about the spell ability which is wisdom on this example vs my charisma? not my wisdom?.......
so there wisdom vs my charisma not there wisdom vs my wisdom?

Yes. The saving throw refers to what the target needs to roll, not what determines the DC for the spell.

If you press T to inspect and hover over the saving throw, it'll tell you the DC for the spell, as well as what affects it.

[sofia ciel]

Originally posted by krauser:

wait hold on so the "save throw" system in in spells is about the spell ability which is wisdom on this example vs my charisma? not my wisdom?.......
so there wisdom vs my charisma not there wisdom vs my wisdom?

Correct.

[Mansour]

Originally posted by sofia ciel:

Originally posted by krauser:

wait hold on so the "save throw" system in in spells is about the spell ability which is wisdom on this example vs my charisma? not my wisdom?.......
so there wisdom vs my charisma not there wisdom vs my wisdom?

Correct.

I HAVE 500 HOURS ON THIS GAME AND I WAS PLAYING THE GAME WRONG THIS WHOLE TIME.........

[Mirri]

Originally posted by krauser:

Originally posted by HandyVac:

Wisdom save means the the enemy rolls using *their* WIS to try and resist the effects of your spell.

The save DC of your spells (i.e. how high the enemy needs to roll to resist it) as a bard depends on your CHA.

wait hold on so the "save throw" system in in spells is about the spell ability which is wisdom on this example vs my charisma? not my wisdom?.......
so there wisdom vs my charisma not there wisdom vs my wisdom?

Pretty much. Every caster has a spell save DC that is based on their spellcasting attribute, so intelligence for Wizards, and charisma for Bards, etc. The spell description will say what attribute the target needs to use to try a save. Spells that can be dodged usually have a dexterity based saving throw, while poisons are often based around constitution saves as you essentially tough it out.

[Curath]

Originally posted by krauser:

Originally posted by HandyVac:

Wisdom save means the the enemy rolls using *their* WIS to try and resist the effects of your spell.

The save DC of your spells (i.e. how high the enemy needs to roll to resist it) as a bard depends on your CHA.

wait hold on so the "save throw" system in in spells is about the spell ability which is wisdom on this example vs my charisma? not my wisdom?.......
so there wisdom vs my charisma not there wisdom vs my wisdom?

In the case of Bard, all your spells have a Saving Throw Difficulty Class (DC) dependent on your level and Charisma modifier. Different spells ask for saving throws with different attributes (STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA) from the target, but the DC they have to meet is based on your characters Charisma, always.

[Broan]

Originally posted by krauser:

Originally posted by HandyVac:

Wisdom save means the the enemy rolls using *their* WIS to try and resist the effects of your spell.

The save DC of your spells (i.e. how high the enemy needs to roll to resist it) as a bard depends on your CHA.

wait hold on so the "save throw" system in in spells is about the spell ability which is wisdom on this example vs my charisma? not my wisdom?.......
so there wisdom vs my charisma not there wisdom vs my wisdom?

ehm yes, of course? Everything says so. Your Spell Save DC and Attack Modifier for Spell always depend on your spellcasting ability and there are several things they possibly need to resist your magic. Either sheer willpower with wisdom, intelligence for seeing through illusions for example, charisma for charming stuff, Dexterity saves to get out of the way in time for fireballs in time and so on and so forth - of course all these types dont rival Attribute vs Attribute. But depending on your spellcasting ability of your class against whatever save the spell says.

[Mansour]

Originally posted by Broan der Rentner:

Originally posted by krauser:

wait hold on so the "save throw" system in in spells is about the spell ability which is wisdom on this example vs my charisma? not my wisdom?.......
so there wisdom vs my charisma not there wisdom vs my wisdom?

ehm yes, of course? Everything says so. Your Spell Save DC and Attack Modifier for Spell always depend on your spellcasting ability and there are several things they possibly need to resist your magic. Either sheer willpower with wisdom, intelligence for seeing through illusions for example, charisma for charming stuff, Dexterity saves to get out of the way in time for fireballs in time and so on and so forth - of course all these types dont rival Attribute vs Attribute. But depending on your spellcasting ability of your class against whatever save the spell says.

this whole time i thought its about there (ability) vs the same ability points of mine so wisdom vs my wisdom or there dex vs my dex, that's why i stayed away from any ability that don't have charisma saving throw