Some classes are just better than others, right?

[aquila]

Prefacing this by saying that I hade no Idea about D&D or CRPGs prior to playing this, and I understand that some classes are better suited for different things, but still - after trying to play around as a rogue for some time, I just made my Character a FIghter class like Lae´zel and its just a joke how easy the game becomes with these. two in my team now hit like a truck, get to attack like 6 times during a single round, and have giant health pools.

Shadowheart is completely useless, yes she heals a bit, but hits like a baby and has only one action, although some cool AOE spells. Same with Gale, dishes out decent damage but gets downed rather quick.

I mean its not surprising that a "fighter" class excels in actual fighting, but if every class is supposedly viable, and the game just forces some fights onto you (and these fights tend to be the hardest) then its just not as much fun to play around with anything else than the fat guys with the big swords

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

If I were a land druid, wildshape would feel almost useless to me because my main utility is a caster, and would be more of a last resort to give me extra hp if needed.

Druids are arguably the most powerful class in the game, but you have to know how to play them.

Absolutely!

Just briefly going to say you should not rule out wildshape as Land though - using turn 1 to haste and wildshape gets you 6 attacks per round afterwards unless your concentration is broken. Which will outdamage a Moon druid.

It certainly feels natural to focus less on wildshape, but the standard forms are really competitive in power if not versatility.

Bear is good, but spider for example is also very strong. You can't provoke, but you can web. And you poison on attack which really messes up opponents.

Sabretooth is good, but so are Owlbear and Dilophosaurus.

Primal strike can be important, but sometimes it doesn't make any difference.

You still get up to three attacks per action!

Definitely room for land to be wild shaped a lot of the time and then just fall back into a better caster after taking damage.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

If I were a land druid, wildshape would feel almost useless to me because my main utility is a caster, and would be more of a last resort to give me extra hp if needed.

Druids are arguably the most powerful class in the game, but you have to know how to play them.

Absolutely!

Just briefly going to say you should not rule out wildshape as Land though - using turn 1 to haste and wildshape gets you 6 attacks per round afterwards unless your concentration is broken. Which will outdamage a Moon druid.

It certainly feels natural to focus less on wildshape, but the standard forms are really competitive in power if not versatility.

Bear is good, but spider for example is also very strong. You can't provoke, but you can web. And you poison on attack which really messes up opponents.

Sabretooth is good, but so are Owlbear and Dilophosaurus.

Primal strike can be important, but sometimes it doesn't make any difference.

You still get up to three attacks per action!

Definitely room for land to be wild shaped a lot of the time and then just fall back into a better caster after taking damage.

Oh, I'm not ruling it out, but you wouldn't have magical attacks as a wildshaped land druid like a wildshaped moon druid would, and that would actually hurt damage overall against some enemies who are resistant or completely immune to non-magical attacks.

But having Jaheira as a land druid and Halsin as moon druid, I get the best of both worlds. ^_^ She can just take a speed potion, cast haste on Halsin and suddenly 2 call lightnings, multiple magical attacks from the beast and my spore druids action economy.....well, we cut through enemies like a hot knife through butter.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by cults:

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

Personally? I wouldn't. The various spells cast by either would be powered either by charisma or by intelligence and that makes things a wee bit more difficult for the casting.

If I were to do it for a challenge run, however, this is how I would go about it. I would go either 2-4 sorcerer and 8-10 wizard, depending on how many sorcery points I wanted to build up for metamagic.

I'd put more points into wizard than sorcerer because they learn 2 spells every time they level up. I'd also choose draconic sorcerer for the extra hp and the extra AC since they get 13+dex by default so I wouldn't have to have mage armor ever.

Quick casting and twin casting will be metamagic I'd choose. Being able to make my sorc/wizard and my fighter or barbarian in the party fly or the rogue and the fighter both have haste can truly turn the tide of battle. Being able to do that and being able to cast fireball in the same turn using a bonus action.

To make up for the fact that sorcerers are charisma and most of my levels as a wizard are intelligence, the spells I'd choose for my sorcerer wouldn't be attack or save spells but rather buff/debuff spells or guarantee to hit spells, like sleep, shield or magic missile, that way I wouldn't have to worry about conflicting stats.

Wow amazing. I never thought to use Sorc as a buffer with metamagic. Something I'll think about for the future. I love long jump on druid, being able to jump across the map as an Owlbear is huge.

Thanks

You're welcome.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

I mean... if you can't make SH powerful that's a skill issue.

Clerics are dangerously scary, even Trickery and Knowledge which are the most non combat ones.

[jonnin]

Originally posted by aquila:

Prefacing this by saying that I hade no Idea about D&D or CRPGs prior to playing this, and I understand that some classes are better suited for different things, but still - after trying to play around as a rogue for some time, I just made my Character a FIghter class like Lae´zel and its just a joke how easy the game becomes with these. two in my team now hit like a truck, get to attack like 6 times during a single round, and have giant health pools.

Shadowheart is completely useless, yes she heals a bit, but hits like a baby and has only one action, although some cool AOE spells. Same with Gale, dishes out decent damage but gets downed rather quick.

I mean its not surprising that a "fighter" class excels in actual fighting, but if every class is supposedly viable, and the game just forces some fights onto you (and these fights tend to be the hardest) then its just not as much fun to play around with anything else than the fat guys with the big swords

Some classes are better than others (paladin seems to be the S tier) and some subclasses are poor as well. Some hybrids are better than others too -- extra action rogue 4 anything else 8 for example.

that said, the default NPCs are often poorly rolled. Shadowhard is awful by default, but 5 min with withers makes her a life cleric (heals a lot more and better) with a 16 dex (can now xbow or rapier/shield contribute in combat in the early game) and high con she becomes your tank or 'threatened' enabler for sneak attacks. Later spells for big fights will also come into play, but for most of act 1 she just tanks and does minimal damage to fix you up after battles. Its not her class, its how they did her stats and the sub-class that mess her up.

wyll is another bad roll, but a reroll gives you 16 con and 17 cha with blade pact lets him use any oddball magic weapon you find with +3 from cha, and with that and level 5 he becomes quite the powerhouse, 2 hits of EB at 5 make his ranged capability fine too, throw a hand crossbow on top of that and his 14 dex (for medium armor bonus) won't be that far behind for an offhand shot.

[Kamiyama]

The thief subclass gets an extra bonus attack as one of its subclass perks. If that gives you a second off-hand attack then any non-fighter martial class that gets extra attacks could have the same number of attacks as a fighter does.

I think there's also an illithid power that does something with bonus attacks?

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Pixel Kitsune:

I mean... if you can't make SH powerful that's a skill issue.

Clerics are dangerously scary, even Trickery and Knowledge which are the most non combat ones.

Heck, trickery clerics, while not the most powerful in combat among the druids, is an absolute beast outside of it.

Just imagine as a class feature giving Astarion advantage on all stealth checks and not needing concentration (blessing of the trickster), giving Karlach and Lae'zel advantage on every melee attack they make thanks to invoke duplicity (and being able to cast spells through the illusion as if you were there, which is how it should work), being able to talk to the dead you yourself killed because of the disguise self spell and so on.

They are more utility than a war or tempest domain cleric, but even trickery have a lot of mileage you can get out of their abilities.

[EnemigoDeLaMafia]

I kept shadowheart as lvl 1 cleric and dual classed as a sorcerer. She brings a lot of utility that way and becomes actually viable.

I couldn't make the cleric class work. Although I'm rather new to d&d.

Mages can use mage armor, and have shield or other protective spells. You do need to keep them out of the way though.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

Oh, I'm not ruling it out, but you wouldn't have magical attacks as a wildshaped land druid like a wildshaped moon druid would, and that would actually hurt damage overall against some enemies who are resistant or completely immune to non-magical attacks.

But having Jaheira as a land druid and Halsin as moon druid, I get the best of both worlds. ^_^ She can just take a speed potion, cast haste on Halsin and suddenly 2 call lightnings, multiple magical attacks from the beast and my spore druids action economy.....well, we cut through enemies like a hot knife through butter.

Definitely, I feel like sometimes people just look at the extra spells for Land druid and ignore that except against resistant enemies they're pretty much a match for Moon Druid wildshaping - which is why Moon Druid feels just a tad weaker in general as a subclass.

Spore druid definitely feels more like the dedicated caster to me really - since you can wildshape as one but you have better uses for the charges.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

Oh, I'm not ruling it out, but you wouldn't have magical attacks as a wildshaped land druid like a wildshaped moon druid would, and that would actually hurt damage overall against some enemies who are resistant or completely immune to non-magical attacks.

But having Jaheira as a land druid and Halsin as moon druid, I get the best of both worlds. ^_^ She can just take a speed potion, cast haste on Halsin and suddenly 2 call lightnings, multiple magical attacks from the beast and my spore druids action economy.....well, we cut through enemies like a hot knife through butter.

Definitely, I feel like sometimes people just look at the extra spells for Land druid and ignore that except against resistant enemies they're pretty much a match for Moon Druid wildshaping - which is why Moon Druid feels just a tad weaker in general as a subclass.

Spore druid definitely feels more like the dedicated caster to me really - since you can wildshape as one but you have better uses for the charges.

Oh, I haven't been playing as much of a caster so much as I've been on the front lines like an almost fighter. Spore druids are at their most effective being in the thick of things, but have the versatility to fall back and be a caster if truly needed.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Definitely, I feel like sometimes people just look at the extra spells for Land druid and ignore that except against resistant enemies they're pretty much a match for Moon Druid wildshaping - which is why Moon Druid feels just a tad weaker in general as a subclass.

Spore druid definitely feels more like the dedicated caster to me really - since you can wildshape as one but you have better uses for the charges.

Oh, I haven't been playing as much of a caster so much as I've been on the front lines like an almost fighter. Spore druids are at their most effective being in the thick of things, but have the versatility to fall back and be a caster if truly needed.

Huh, I haven't tried one but I assumed they'd be kinda a tanky melee caster in a sense. Maybe more of a hybrid, but since the whole spell list is there and you're unlikely to wild shape heh.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

General rule, use Clerics as front liners and deniers more than Casters.

Standard Cleric Approach
Round 1 cast Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians. Move into melee or choke point.

Round 2 Profit even if you did nothing or only be a healbot.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Pixel Kitsune:

General rule, use Clerics as front liners and deniers more than Casters.

Standard Cleric Approach
Round 1 cast Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians. Move into melee or choke point.

Round 2 Profit even if you did nothing or only be a healbot.

Haha yes. I think the AI is set to try to prefer to break concentration and I have Shadowheart kitted up with the highest AC in the party, -5 damage from attacks, a reaction to knock attackers prone, and immunity to prone when concentrating. And at times a blindness aura to some enemy types.

It's funny to watch them try to attack her.

[cults]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Pixel Kitsune:

General rule, use Clerics as front liners and deniers more than Casters.

Standard Cleric Approach
Round 1 cast Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians. Move into melee or choke point.

Round 2 Profit even if you did nothing or only be a healbot.

Haha yes. I think the AI is set to try to prefer to break concentration and I have Shadowheart kitted up with the highest AC in the party, -5 damage from attacks, a reaction to knock attackers prone, and immunity to prone when concentrating. And at times a blindness aura to some enemy types.

It's funny to watch them try to attack her.

That weapon is why I suddenly want a cleric on my party... I currently have it on a Wizard, yuck. Also I prefer SH over Gale.

[Friends with Benedicts]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Compared to all the spells Land gets or all the options Spore gets, while they both keep almost all of the power of wild shape, it's definitely pretty mediocre feeling to me.

yep, got the same feeling when I tried the druid but if im being honest its like that in literally every druid I tried playin