Why is there a limit to the maximum possible level in the game?

[paradox]

Even in Divinity Os ll there was no restriction as such, if I'm not mistaken, 21 levels could be reached for all possible quests there, and then a lot of millions of experience were not enough to 22, although the quests ended by themselves by the end of the game. But in BG 3, for some reason, the 12th level of the character is set as the maximum possible, all the experience that you get after just disappears, although it feels like I could get 13 or even 14 levels, given that I got the 12th in the middle, if not the beginning of the third act, where serious opponents and quest chains begin, for which they give a lot of experience, I think this restriction does not make sense.

[EthanT]

Not all DnD games or stories go to 20th level. Majority of the published asdventures for DnD only go to a certain level, and very few campaigns ive ever played had characters reach 20.

Out of the Abyss: 1-15
Golden Vault: 1-11
Dragon Lance: 1-11
Spelljammer: 5-8
Stormwreck isle: 1-3
Radiant Citadel: 1-13
Witchlight: 1-8
Candlekeep : 1-16
Mad Mage: 5-20

Basically, VERY FEW DnD stories/adventures actually go past 12, even fewer actually get to 20. BG3 is just another adventure module that goes to the 11-15 range, making it fairly standard in DnD.

[PocketYoda]

People are lucky.. Early access they were going to stop even earlier and people complained so it was upped to 12.

[talemore]

Originally posted by PocketYoda:

People are lucky.. Early access they were going to stop even earlier and people complained so it was upped to 12.

D&D isn't meant to max levels. 14 is where I would say. Then later it becomes too hard to balance a cleric with power word: kill

[Theobald]

What they *could* do and that would satisfy nearly anyone (and by "nearly anyone" i mean "anyone that has grasped the concepts or ever read 5e rules") is to allow for a level 20 cap (which can nearly be attained by doing absolutely everything taht get xp in the game) BUT locking classes at level 12, you would only multiclass beyond. That solves both the power of magic beyond 5th rank and the powercravings of players inclined, and you still can get the "getting stronger" feelings. And you get to try how multiclassing is fun and well thought out.


Funnily, there are already mods for that. So go go go.
There are also mods to get class levels 13-20, and a mod that is trying to recreate the 5th to 9th spells (*insight roll* the really imaginatives ones won't be playable, only the boring ones, or the funny ones in a boring interpretation, like in BG2, because Larian is right).

And by the way, there is also a pretty accurate battle against a 9th-level spells wielder in the game, and she just wish you dead. And it's over. Amazing fun.
You also have already the support of the 9th-level adaptable utility spells in the character of Withers (pc conjuration, true resurrection, yada yada yada) for free.

[PocketYoda]

Originally posted by talemore:

Originally posted by PocketYoda:

People are lucky.. Early access they were going to stop even earlier and people complained so it was upped to 12.

D&D isn't meant to max levels. 14 is where I would say. Then later it becomes too hard to balance a cleric with power word: kill

I agree but 12 is better than 10. I believe it originally was planned.

[X-C0brA-X]

Originally posted by doomshadow612:

Supposedly you might be too "overpowered" for the game. Of course the fat nerds will swarm the topic claiming that "low level is where it's at" and "DND isn't intended for high lvl chars" - however the real reason we can't have epic lvl characters is Larian's stupidity and incompetence. NWN has done epic levels. BG2 ToB has done it. Why in 2023 a company with millions of dollars at its disposal is claiming it's "too hard to balance"? Did they blow all their budget on their "gender studies" PhDs advising how to attach beards to women and how to be more "inclusive"?

I think it has to do with keeping the game challenging. There are some who want the God characters that cannot possibly die to anything in the game just like the ones who play Skyrim and turn on God mode so they never die.

Many people do not want that. The only thing that made me stop playing all the Diablo games including the new one was the fact that not far into the game you can find items and create a build that is basically unstoppable and you never have to worry about dying again. To me that was 100% boring. Diablo even put in torment levels where the mobs were supposed to be stronger and tougher but with the insane loot drops in those areas your character just became even more God like.

Some people cannot handle losing in a game and some want the challenge of if they screw up they die and have to go back and try another strategy. I do not think any game can cater to both players and remain a challenging game. I guarantee if you raise the level to 20 or 30 you will have people in act 1 and 2 farming everything they can to quickly hit that level cap then blow right through the game complaining how easy it was.

I actually prefer games like a lot of mmo's where the world is sectioned off by levels and you can return to those low levels and one shot every mob but you get no xp for it so your only option to level is to keep moving forward and fighting mobs that could possibly kill you instead of sitting in one area and farming xp over and over till you hit max level. I also think level scaling in games is a great feature because it keeps the world at your level so you never have those annoying areas that you run through and every mob is so low that you can kick them and kill them.

[EleventhStar]

yeaaah... if level 12 is the max but there is exp available for 21 levels i might have to give this game a pass.

that sounds like you'll reach max level like 33% into the game orso.

or is there some other meaningful progression system that takes the place of leveling at this point?

[Majinmaster]

after a while of playing DnD, you tend to find that the sweet spot is around about 10th to 12th level, where all of the most functional abilities of every class come into play. also most campaigns, even the ones that support levels all the way from 5th to 20th usually hit their climax around about the same level cap. so it stands to reason that Larian would just put in this automatic level cap. saves time, programming, and a lot of dataspace, remembering that every level of everyclass and every ability of those levels including subclass features would have to not only have to be programmed in but would each have to have their very own protocols for how they would interact with every other asset in the game. absolutely mind boggling

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by Majinmaster:

after a while of playing DnD, you tend to find that the sweet spot is around about 10th to 12th level, where all of the most functional abilities of every class come into play. also most campaigns, even the ones that support levels all the way from 5th to 20th usually hit their climax around about the same level cap. so it stands to reason that Larian would just put in this automatic level cap. saves time, programming, and a lot of dataspace, remembering that every level of everyclass and every ability of those levels including subclass features would have to not only have to be programmed in but would each have to have their very own protocols for how they would interact with every other asset in the game. absolutely mind boggling

IRL DND and computer game DND are very different.

[PocketYoda]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

yeaaah... if level 12 is the max but there is exp available for 21 levels i might have to give this game a pass.

that sounds like you'll reach max level like 33% into the game orso.

or is there some other meaningful progression system that takes the place of leveling at this point?

More like 88% into the game.

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by PocketYoda:

More like 88% into the game.

i had this issue in witcher 3 too.

i feel like if i had just done the main story, exp curve would have been fine.

but because i explored a lot and did a lot of sidequest, i ended up with a game where every enemy was always many levels below me.

[Dank Vader]

My biggest issue is that I wish the character creation was more like Pathfinder. I would have never rolled a Dragonborn Sorc with Dragon bloodline when all I get is fire affinity and Fly?

It would have been nice to know ahead of time that the class traits were so underwhelming.

[Innominatam]

Originally posted by Theobald:

What they *could* do and that would satisfy nearly anyone (and by "nearly anyone" i mean "anyone that has grasped the concepts or ever read 5e rules") is to allow for a level 20 cap (which can nearly be attained by doing absolutely everything taht get xp in the game) BUT locking classes at level 12, you would only multiclass beyond. That solves both the power of magic beyond 5th rank and the powercravings of players inclined, and you still can get the "getting stronger" feelings. And you get to try how multiclassing is fun and well thought out.


Funnily, there are already mods for that. So go go go.
There are also mods to get class levels 13-20, and a mod that is trying to recreate the 5th to 9th spells (*insight roll* the really imaginatives ones won't be playable, only the boring ones, or the funny ones in a boring interpretation, like in BG2, because Larian is right).

And by the way, there is also a pretty accurate battle against a 9th-level spells wielder in the game, and she just wish you dead. And it's over. Amazing fun.
You also have already the support of the 9th-level adaptable utility spells in the character of Withers (pc conjuration, true resurrection, yada yada yada) for free.

This is a lie, I think if you do everything RIGHT and get all the EXp you can get to 14, there ISN'T enough EXP in the game to gte to 20 naturally, this is why the level 20 mod has a double exp rate because it says right in the disclaimer (you will never hit 20 if you run this mod with the exp how it is)

[PocketYoda]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

Originally posted by PocketYoda:

More like 88% into the game.

i had this issue in witcher 3 too.

i feel like if i had just done the main story, exp curve would have been fine.

but because i explored a lot and did a lot of sidequest, i ended up with a game where every enemy was always many levels below me.

Happens in a lot of games sadly..

[Theobald]

Originally posted by E.:

Originally posted by Theobald:

What they *could* do and that would satisfy nearly anyone (and by "nearly anyone" i mean "anyone that has grasped the concepts or ever read 5e rules") is to allow for a level 20 cap (which can nearly be attained by doing absolutely everything taht get xp in the game) BUT locking classes at level 12, you would only multiclass beyond. That solves both the power of magic beyond 5th rank and the powercravings of players inclined, and you still can get the "getting stronger" feelings. And you get to try how multiclassing is fun and well thought out.


Funnily, there are already mods for that. So go go go.
There are also mods to get class levels 13-20, and a mod that is trying to recreate the 5th to 9th spells (*insight roll* the really imaginatives ones won't be playable, only the boring ones, or the funny ones in a boring interpretation, like in BG2, because Larian is right).

And by the way, there is also a pretty accurate battle against a 9th-level spells wielder in the game, and she just wish you dead. And it's over. Amazing fun.
You also have already the support of the 9th-level adaptable utility spells in the character of Withers (pc conjuration, true resurrection, yada yada yada) for free.

This is a lie, I think if you do everything RIGHT and get all the EXp you can get to 14, there ISN'T enough EXP in the game to gte to 20 naturally, this is why the level 20 mod has a double exp rate because it says right in the disclaimer (you will never hit 20 if you run this mod with the exp how it is)

The Levelcurve mod we are speaking of is literally telling in its description that the -smoothed- curve is just short of level 20, and that the double one is twice that.