Baldur's Gate 3

Baldur's Gate 3

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Pan Darius Cassandra (Banned) Mar 28, 2023 @ 4:41pm
The Reason D&D Only Allows One Leveled Spell/Turn
Just like Wizards learning any spell in the game, this cannot be allowed to remain or the game will become a joke.

And remember, this is before Thief bonus action or Bard Song of Rest + Quickened Spell multiclass shenanigans are possible.

https://youtu.be/RCSpCPrDYYs
Last edited by Pan Darius Cassandra; Mar 28, 2023 @ 5:35pm
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Showing 61-75 of 118 comments
Originally posted by Slynx Jewel:
Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

In TT you can only cast one leveled spell per turn, so you can't just nuke every single boss on Turn 1.

Furthermore, as I already explained, as a Sorlock you don't need to unload like this on every single encounter, as you have plenty other tools - namely, Eldritch Blast - to deal with everything else.

You save these kinds of nuclear armageddons for boss fights, then long rest after.

When it comes to Sorlocks, EB and a couple Invocations are all you need to get through the minion fights leading up to the boss fights.
still haven't seen the quote from the rulebook that's not talking about bonus action that'll introduce a hard lock on 1 leveled spell per round.
the one mentioned above requires for you to cast a spell as a bonus action first after all.
but let's leave this aside. it's not that important right now (and i believe that incorrect things like haste allowing you to cast extra spells may be fixed in future on release)

also sor-lock is a known combination which is nerfed compared to tabletop version, cuz there is a limit on short rests you can take. so what? you'll win a game. it'ls not like it's hard in any way. and most of the encounters in EAA have "i win" button (for example in a for of pre-placed cliffs or barrels or stones that fall down. etc).

i have a feeling that most players will not play as 4 sorlocks. and even if they'll do it once...they'll choose something different for the next playthrough.

This is actually a widely debated upon rule but overall it is mainly up to the DM it sounds and how they think the rule is based. but the best explanation i have seen from another site is this:

Yes, you can cast more than one spell per turn/round.

The only specific restriction is that if you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't cast a non-cantrip spell during your turn.

You can:
Cast a spell as a bonus action, then cast a cantrip as your action or reaction.

Cast a spell as an action, use Action Surge, cast another spell as your second action.

Cast a spell as an action, then cast another spell as a reaction on your turn or someone else's turn.

Combine the two to cast two spells as actions and a third as a reaction in the same round.

Cast a spell as a bonus action on your turn, then cast another spell as a reaction on someone else's turn in the same round (Shield or Counterspell for example).

Cast a spell as a bonus action, then do something that kinda looks like a spell but really isn't as your action. (Ki powers that are not spells, Lay on Hands, Divine Smite, Channel Divinity, use spells which let you do something for X rounds (Witch Bolt, Call Lightning, Flaming Sphere, ...), etc.)

The order in which you do things doesn't matter, so when you can do X then Y, you can also do Y and then X.
Pan Darius Cassandra (Banned) Apr 1, 2023 @ 12:29pm 
Originally posted by Slynx Jewel:
Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

In TT you can only cast one leveled spell per turn, so you can't just nuke every single boss on Turn 1.

Furthermore, as I already explained, as a Sorlock you don't need to unload like this on every single encounter, as you have plenty other tools - namely, Eldritch Blast - to deal with everything else.

You save these kinds of nuclear armageddons for boss fights, then long rest after.

When it comes to Sorlocks, EB and a couple Invocations are all you need to get through the minion fights leading up to the boss fights.
still haven't seen the quote from the rulebook that's not talking about bonus action that'll introduce a hard lock on 1 leveled spell per round.
the one mentioned above requires for you to cast a spell as a bonus action first after all.
but let's leave this aside. it's not that important right now (and i believe that incorrect things like haste allowing you to cast extra spells may be fixed in future on release)

also sor-lock is a known combination which is nerfed compared to tabletop version, cuz there is a limit on short rests you can take. so what? you'll win a game. it'ls not like it's hard in any way. and most of the encounters in EA have "i win" condition (for example in a form of pre-placed cliffs or barrels or stones that fall down. etc).

i have a feeling that most players will not play as 4 sorlocks. and even if they'll do it once...they'll choose something different for the next playthrough.

Firstly, you do not actually understand how the rules work. The only way to cast more than one leveled spell per turn in D&D is with Action Surge.

The rest of your "argument" boils down to "so what?" and I don't feel is worth addressing.

If you don't understand why balance is important in a turn based tactical strategy game, then not even Eilistraee can help you.
sevensided Apr 1, 2023 @ 12:37pm 
Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Firstly, you do not actually understand how the rules work. The only way to cast more than one leveled spell per turn in D&D is with Action Surge.

As an aside-
In theory, if you have the war caster feat, and you could induce a target to provoke an opportunity attack on your turn, you could use your reaction to cast a leveled spell(within the other restrictions of war caster - single target, 1 action cast time) with your reaction and still cast a leveled spell with your regular action. I know its an unlikely happening, but it is a nuance of the rules that exists.
Pan Darius Cassandra (Banned) Apr 1, 2023 @ 12:39pm 
Originally posted by sevensided:
Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Firstly, you do not actually understand how the rules work. The only way to cast more than one leveled spell per turn in D&D is with Action Surge.

As an aside-
In theory, if you have the war caster feat, and you could induce a target to provoke an opportunity attack on your turn, you could use your reaction to cast a leveled spell(within the other restrictions of war caster - single target, 1 action cast time) with your reaction and still cast a leveled spell with your regular action. I know its an unlikely happening, but it is a nuance of the rules that exists.

That's interesting. Have you seen any builds that do that? Fear perhaps?
Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:
If you don't understand why balance is important in a turn based tactical strategy game, then not even Eilistraee can help you.
there's a big difference when talking about balance in single player vs multi player. In single player you can simply use self control to not do anything you consider unbalanced. Problem solved, now game is balanced.
sevensided Apr 1, 2023 @ 12:45pm 
Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:
Originally posted by sevensided:

As an aside-
In theory, if you have the war caster feat, and you could induce a target to provoke an opportunity attack on your turn, you could use your reaction to cast a leveled spell(within the other restrictions of war caster - single target, 1 action cast time) with your reaction and still cast a leveled spell with your regular action. I know its an unlikely happening, but it is a nuance of the rules that exists.

That's interesting. Have you seen any builds that do that? Fear perhaps?

I haven't, like I said- veeeery unlikely to happen. The frightened condition itself doesn't make the target move, simply limits movement. Spells that cause that condition if they make the target move, like Fear, typically have the movement occur on the target's turn. This could cause an AoO but not on your turn. And forced movement (like with Telekinesis or a Shove) does not cause an attack of opportunity.
Originally posted by sevensided:
Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

That's interesting. Have you seen any builds that do that? Fear perhaps?

I haven't, like I said- veeeery unlikely to happen. The frightened condition itself doesn't make the target move, simply limits movement. Spells that cause that condition if they make the target move, like Fear, typically have the movement occur on the target's turn. This could cause an AoO but not on your turn. And forced movement (like with Telekinesis or a Shove) does not cause an attack of opportunity.

From my understanding reactions only happen when the target moves on its own not when it's forced to move, shoving, pushing or controlling someone to force a move doesn't count. Fear is different in that the target wants to move away out of fear of the target, but that only applies on their turn. The fear spell in general in BG3 is quite strong because they also drop their weapons, which means if they do recover they are now punching you.

But yes it would work in the context of the
"Cast a spell as an action, then cast another spell as a reaction on your turn or someone else's turn."

Wether it's war caster or hellish rebuke from being hit, both would be allowed.
Pan Darius Cassandra (Banned) Apr 1, 2023 @ 1:06pm 
Originally posted by sevensided:
Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

That's interesting. Have you seen any builds that do that? Fear perhaps?

I haven't, like I said- veeeery unlikely to happen. The frightened condition itself doesn't make the target move, simply limits movement. Spells that cause that condition if they make the target move, like Fear, typically have the movement occur on the target's turn. This could cause an AoO but not on your turn. And forced movement (like with Telekinesis or a Shove) does not cause an attack of opportunity.

I think there are monk or rogue subclass features that let them - willingly - move, as a reaction, during another character's turn under specific circumstances. I don't remember what it's called or exactly how it works though.

In any case, we're wandering into the weeds now.
Last edited by Pan Darius Cassandra; Apr 1, 2023 @ 1:06pm
WitlessScholar Apr 1, 2023 @ 2:07pm 
Holy hell, this thread is still going? If nothing else it's a good reminder that the DnD rules are poorly written.
Originally posted by WitlessScholar:
Holy hell, this thread is still going? If nothing else it's a good reminder that the DnD rules are poorly written.
If DnD used an Action Points system then this would probably not have been an issue or it would be simple to solve with an AP system because its a very flexible system.
But then again, we can also just use our self control to not do these things that are considered imbalanced. If you don't like something, then simply don't use it. It's not a multiplayer game.
Pan Darius Cassandra (Banned) Apr 1, 2023 @ 2:24pm 
Originally posted by WitlessScholar:
Holy hell, this thread is still going? If nothing else it's a good reminder that the DnD rules are poorly written.

Some of them, yes. Also these sorts of issues have been known and addressed for years in errata, so there's no real excuse for it.

D&D only allows one levrled spell to be cast per turn, except under very specific circumstances, like using Action Surge.
Slynx Jewel Apr 1, 2023 @ 2:24pm 
Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Firstly, you do not actually understand how the rules work. The only way to cast more than one leveled spell per turn in D&D is with Action Surge.

The rest of your "argument" boils down to "so what?" and I don't feel is worth addressing.

If you don't understand why balance is important in a turn based tactical strategy game, then not even Eilistraee can help you.
i do understand how rules work. and i deliberatly ignore RAI. cuz i think it's not important in any way (cuz DM have a saying in this matter)
and i've re-read whole phb to find the restriction. but there weren't any.
and yes. i know that some of the ways to get actions in tabletop have built-in restrictions (like haste spell i've mentioned twice). or bonus action restriction mentioned on page202.
so as long as you have bonus actions you'll be able to cast it.

and yes, i've made "why bother?" arguements cuz i think the fact that sorc can convert every spellslot into fireball is not that OP or need to be fixed. and to solve the issue of having ability to fire multiple fireballs in 1 round can easier be done by fixing spells that give unrestricted actions. which is a different matter from your original post, cuz i had a feeling that you want to restrict spells instead.
Bad Kobold Apr 1, 2023 @ 3:00pm 
So you know this can work like this in the table top as well right?.

Just looked at my players handbook, and there is no limit on making spell slots.

Creating Spell Slots. You can transform unexpended sorcery points into one spell slot as a bonus action on your turn. The Creating Spell Slots table shows the cost of creating a spell slot of a given level. You can create spell slots no higher in level than 5th.

Any spell slot you create with this feature vanishes when you finish a long rest.

at 5th lvl making a lvl 3 spell slot takes 5 points you start with 5 after your rest.

so that is 2 lvl 3 spells after the long rest, burn your points. 3 lvl 3 spells

spells give points for their level, you cannot hold more then 5 points at a time at 5th level
4 lvl 1 spells
3 lvl 2 spells

burn 2 lvl 2 spells 4 points back, 1 lvl spell, for 5 points

you now have 4 lvl 3 spells.

burn your last lvl 2 and your 3 lvl 1 spells. for 5 points.

you now have 5 lvl 3 spells slots. Then just use them all in one battle.
KeepCleaving Apr 1, 2023 @ 3:32pm 
*eats popcorn* so like... maybe wait and see what happens in the game upon release?
Feels like a wasted use of finger energy to me.
Pan Darius Cassandra (Banned) Apr 1, 2023 @ 3:45pm 
Originally posted by Slynx Jewel:
Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Firstly, you do not actually understand how the rules work. The only way to cast more than one leveled spell per turn in D&D is with Action Surge.

The rest of your "argument" boils down to "so what?" and I don't feel is worth addressing.

If you don't understand why balance is important in a turn based tactical strategy game, then not even Eilistraee can help you.
i do understand how rules work. and i deliberatly ignore RAI. cuz i think it's not important in any way (cuz DM have a saying in this matter)
and i've re-read whole phb to find the restriction. but there weren't any.
and yes. i know that some of the ways to get actions in tabletop have built-in restrictions (like haste spell i've mentioned twice). or bonus action restriction mentioned on page202.
so as long as you have bonus actions you'll be able to cast it.

and yes, i've made "why bother?" arguements cuz i think the fact that sorc can convert every spellslot into fireball is not that OP or need to be fixed. and to solve the issue of having ability to fire multiple fireballs in 1 round can easier be done by fixing spells that give unrestricted actions. which is a different matter from your original post, cuz i had a feeling that you want to restrict spells instead.

Well, there's nothing else I can say except you're dead wrong.

and i deliberatly ignore RAI. cuz i think it's not important in any way

I mean, that becomes more and more obvious with each post.
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Date Posted: Mar 28, 2023 @ 4:41pm
Posts: 118