The Reason D&D Only Allows One Leveled Spell/Turn

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Just like Wizards learning any spell in the game, this cannot be allowed to remain or the game will become a joke.

And remember, this is before Thief bonus action or Bard Song of Rest + Quickened Spell multiclass shenanigans are possible.

https://youtu.be/RCSpCPrDYYs

[Izunyami]

Pan Darius Kairos původně napsal:

Razorblade původně napsal:

Hard disagree. Trivializing a game's difficulty is not fun, and having to police myself to avoid accidentally doing it is tedious.

I mean it's same thing with people wanting a no save-scumming mode... just use some discipline and self control, simple. Just don't do it. If people want easy mode with thief bonus etc then let them and use self control for yourself. Case closed!

Rich coming from Ms "barrels ruin the game"

[Slynx Jewel]

Pan Darius Loveless původně napsal:

It's right here in the text you quoted:

Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.

Thing is. .. It's talking about bonus actions, no no bonus actions = no limitations.
Haste, on the other hand restrict casting. Online attacking, dashing and etc.

[Dusk_Army]

Slynx Jewel původně napsal:

Pan Darius Loveless původně napsal:

It's right here in the text you quoted:

Thing is. .. It's talking about bonus actions, no no bonus actions = no limitations.
Haste, on the other hand restrict casting. Online attacking, dashing and etc.

In fairness, this clause is heavily debated by rules lawyers, with the question being whether the RAI is supposed to be, "You can only cast one level 1+ spell per turn, period," or "If you cast a spell with as a bonus action, you may not cast another level 1+ spell unless you are somehow granted an additional action." I believe one of the designers did put out a tweet that clarified that Action Surge could allow someone to legally cast two spells in a turn, but I honestly don't trust his rulings because he also put out one that said, "the proper way to roll damage for Magic Missile is to roll 1d4+1 and apply that single roll to each target, rather than rolling for each missile individually."

But again, this whole discussion is kinda dumb. A 5th level Sorcerer can cast Fireball 5 times a day, if they dump all their resources into doing so. Big whoop, that's just how Sorcery Points work. I'm not seeing where in this demonstration the player is getting more than one Fireball per round, especially since they don't even have the SP left to use Quicken Spell.

[RealDealBreaker]

Dusk_Army původně napsal:

....this is literally how it works in the tabletop rules. I cannot see it as a design problem.

No it is not. You cannot use two leveled spells in a turn in table top EXCEPT if you are multicalssed with fighter and use action surge. You CANNOT use the additional action granted by haste to cast a spell and if you cast a spell using a bonus action (either because it has a normal casting time of a bonus action or you used quicken spell to change an action cast time to a bonus action) you can only use your action to cast a cantrip with a casting time of one action (or any non-spell casting action).

[Dusk_Army]

RealDealBreaker původně napsal:

Dusk_Army původně napsal:

....this is literally how it works in the tabletop rules. I cannot see it as a design problem.

No it is not. You cannot use two leveled spells in a turn in table top EXCEPT if you are multicalssed with fighter and use action surge. You CANNOT use the additional action granted by haste to cast a spell and if you cast a spell using a bonus action (either because it has a normal casting time of a bonus action or you used quicken spell to change an action cast time to a bonus action) you can only use your action to cast a cantrip with a casting time of one action (or any non-spell casting action).

And all I'm seeing from this video is four sorcerers chucking fireballs at a beach outside of combat, so I don't see what haste has to do with anything.

[Mosey]

All the video shows is a sorcerer burning all their lower level spell slots to get five 3rd level spells out of combat, in this case fireball. That's a trade of four level 1 spells and three level 2 spells, not to mention all their sorcerer points, to gain three 3rd level spells which is a bad trade in general.

That's how Sorcerer works, so what? Nothing about this video addresses in combat situations, because that's not how combat works in BG3.

At the end of all that, you're still out of spells and points. Powerful? Yes. Game breaking? Not unless you consider 3rd level spells themselves game breaking.

Unless the OP wants to post a video that actually says what they say it says, it's a nothingburger.

To all the people arguing over quicken and haste and etc. etc. etc. the OP can't do that after doing this. They are straight up out of resources.

This OP is straight up misinformation.

[Moifaso]

Quickened Spell in BG3 costs 50% more than in Tabletop DnD. It also looks like great fun, I say keep it. Maybe make it scale with every other spell level.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Mosey původně napsal:

All the video shows is a sorcerer burning all their lower level spell slots to get five 3rd level spells out of combat, in this case fireball. That's a trade of four level 1 spells and three level 2 spells, not to mention all their sorcerer points, to gain three 3rd level spells which is a bad trade in general.

That's how Sorcerer works, so what? Nothing about this video addresses in combat situations, because that's not how combat works in BG3.

At the end of all that, you're still out of spells and points. Powerful? Yes. Game breaking? Not unless you consider 3rd level spells themselves game breaking.

Unless the OP wants to post a video that actually says what they say it says, it's a nothingburger.

To all the people arguing over quicken and haste and etc. etc. etc. the OP can't do that after doing this. They are straight up out of resources.

This OP is straight up misinformation.

I would note that there is a bunch of Haste potions in the game as is, also they are suggesting you use a bard to song of Rest and recover sorcery points? But I'm not sure how this works in combat... I guess I could test it out? But I'm not really a video posting kinda person but I could inform of the results in a real combat scenario I guess, I'll give it a shot as I wanna see if this is possible honestly.

[Hobocop]

Yeah, nothing about this example has anything to do with casting multiple leveled spells in a turn specifically.

And if you're mutliclassing to get access to Thief stuff, your casting, spell slot and Sorcerery point progression will suffer for a significant chunk of the game.

Never mind that you need a bonus action for each step of the sorcery point/spell slot conversion process.

So, congrats, you're an 8th-level character, limited to 3rd level spells at best who can throw a fireball or two and get halfway through converting two of your lower level spell slots into a 3rd level slot. How delightfully unimpressive for the investment of three non-caster levels.

And if we assume Warlock, pact spell level depends on your Warlock level. So, now we need to invest heavily into Warlock to get mileage out of converting them into sorcery points for each short rest, and be Sorcerer 3 minimum for Quickened Spell. By the time this build even gets rolling, you're 11th level, the campaign is nearly over, and monoclass casters will have long had access to much more impactful spells.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Quickened spell cost 3 sorcery points so you need 6 to cast, without cross class right now you cannot cast more then 4 fireballs per turn, assuming you have the circlet that would give you an additional bonus action on fire spell.
You need to waste 4 level 1 spell slots to have 3 lvl 3 spells slots, a lvl 2 spell slot to get 4 lvl 3 slots and if you convert and leave the rest of the lvl 2 spell slots as sorc points you have 5 left, thats not enough to twin spell twice so no matter how you roll it you can only cast 3 fireballs in 1 turn right now.
Haste not needed with circlet but thats another 3 point quick spell, and this is quite tedious you would also burn thru so much food there might not be enough per combat in the end lol but the other option would be you need to cast haste with another caster or drink a potion and wait an entire round to do so wasting a total of 4 lvl 3 spell slots to cast 3 fireballs.

NOW if you theory craft a broken build where you are also a warlock that gets 2 spell slots back per short rest, you could leave more sorc points on the table with and waste all of your short rests and bards song to cast more but im not gonna do the math on that and whats possible the absolute max with cross class would be 7 though.

Sorry im not a video person but i made a mock up i ended on bard cuz i was gonna keep fighting but i realized i showed what needed to be shown and stopped recording but i easily beat the commander obviously, Yes i did give myself lvl 5 on the nautaloid i wasnt about to lvl up to 5 for a simple test legit lol but no other alterations were made this is all possible in game otherwise. This also takes 2 casters because with casting haste on yourself the max fireballs on turn 1 is 2. I felt that doing 2 sorc made this more clear and the bard was to test song of rest and it has no effect on spell slots at this juncture as we all would have guessed.


https://youtu.be/ZOaOqiERC94


So it does work and they might wanna fix that interaction but i think it would be so resource consuming that you would get sick of doing it real quick honestly i was sick of doing it after 4 times on the nautaloid and that has instant refresh pods lol

[AngryPuppy]

This is a non-issue. It's EA, you would think people would be smart enough to save the whining until the entire game is finished and released.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

AngryPuppy původně napsal:

This is a non-issue. It's EA, you would think people would be smart enough to save the whining until the entire game is finished and released. :orccaptain:

I mean its not whining if its just for reporting purposes. If no feedback is allowed because "whining" then whats the point of EA at all? it is valid to bring it up, the question is really is it worth fixing? I think wasting all your spell slots each interaction is gonna be rough though. Complaining about cross classing and stuff isnt as needed but its worth pointing out how it might increase the issue for a better understanding for balance reasons

[Sonic Titan]

Just imagine if those fireballs were thrown into an array of explosive barrels, though.

[IgnatiusJ.Reilly]

The main offender here is Haste. It not only doubles the amount of 1 action spells that you can cast but also doubles Extra Attack, increasing DPS by roughly 25%. That's absolutely ridiculous!

But, yes, Quicken should should be nerfed back to tabletop guidelines, but it's sorcery point cost should also probably be reduced to one, as it's not that good of a meta-magic in tabletop.

[Rinny]

Very nice

Now lets see you try it in actual combat.... where you get one action per turn.....