Why is initiative a D4 in this game?

[Nyaria]

Seriously. Rolling for initiative has always been a D20.

Why in the world is it a D4 in BG3?

[Metallicus]

I think it is a house rule, but it could be part of 5th edition. The 5th edition games I have run and played in we always used a d20, but as a Pathfinder guy my experience with 5e is limited.

[Nyaria]

D&D 5e has D20 initiatives. I've played D&D 5e. It does not have a d4 initiative.

D4 Initiatives mean you overly favor anyone with dexterity, it's one thing to on average go first because you have a 20 dex, but on a D4 roll, you will always go before anyone with a +0 or lower dexterity, which is not how it goes usually.

Dex is already a massively overloaded stat that gets way too many benefits, and now this? :\

[LArc7thHeaven]

is it? because in this game you can't check the initiative roll on lower right tab

[Nyaria]

Yes, if you have a +0 Dex, keep a watch on your initiative score over your head when it's rolled, you will never (As long as you have zero initiative bonuses, from items, elixirs, or class) get an initiative score over 4.

[zorlag]

Smaller initiative die will give actual Initiative bonus more importance. By itself, this is a pretty decent houserule. I think I'd rather use d6 than d4 for bit more variance, though.

If you run D20 initiative, you could have sessions where a character with 5 or more initiative bonus than anyone else will always go last in all fights. It's one thing to use D20 on attack rolls, which are frequent. That evens out during a session, as each player rolls dozens of them. But Initiative roll happens only few times, or perhaps even once.

Does it overvalue Dex even more? Yes, and Dex indeed is a stat anyone who isn't rolling heavy armor melee build wants. But that's problem with Dex, not with winning initiative more often. Game needs to make sure people who dump some other stat for Dex get punished for it by targeted attacks on those weaker attributes.

[Nyaria]

Dex gets plenty of benefits, them getting automatically highest initiative on top of everything is ridiculous.

Yes, SOMETIMES shocker, a Dex character wasn't at the top of the initiative order 100% of the time. Guess what? That's a thing that happens.

Having a high initiative bonus means more often you will be acting first, it should not be a you are guaranteed to go first.

It's honestly ridiculous of a change that once again tosses all the cookies once again into the bag of Dexterity, that didn't need more benefits, because it's already overloaded.

[Lee]

It's weird, I agree. But I saw a mod pop up just today that lets you use any die up to d20 for the roll instead.

[Nomad]

Originally posted by Pookie101:

I assume it's a rule change for 5th edition D&D

It's not. You roll for initiative with a D20

Originally posted by zorlag:

Smaller initiative die will give actual Initiative bonus more importance. By itself, this is a pretty decent houserule. I think I'd rather use d6 than d4 for bit more variance, though.

If you run D20 initiative, you could have sessions where a character with 5 or more initiative bonus than anyone else will always go last in all fights. It's one thing to use D20 on attack rolls, which are frequent. That evens out during a session, as each player rolls dozens of them. But Initiative roll happens only few times, or perhaps even once.

Does it overvalue Dex even more? Yes, and Dex indeed is a stat anyone who isn't rolling heavy armor melee build wants. But that's problem with Dex, not with winning initiative more often. Game needs to make sure people who dump some other stat for Dex get punished for it by targeted attacks on those weaker attributes.

If Larian was going to go this rout then it may have been a good idea for them to reduce the initiative bonus on Alert. As it is, taking Alert practically guarantees that you will go first which is too powerful in my opinion and kind of makes your dice roll for initiative irrelevant. Cant be surprised is a really strong benefit as well.

[InfernalSkys]

there's a mod that changes it to d20, i tried it and it really drags the combat on partly because turns will have a much lower chance of overlapping, it becomes very tedious after a while especially on a big fight, so I can understand why they made the change.

[NixAhmose]

Yeah, if they had to change the initiative dice they should have change it to a d10.

[Invalidiot]

d10 was used in the AD&D 2e and earlier for initiative. I am not sure when it changed to d20. The d10 version you had to use the weapon speed of the weapon you were using as added to the number rolled to see who went first, daggers being faster (higher speed being a lower number) than a bastard sword and animals/monsters/unarmed with their own natural weapons also had their own speed factor.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by zorlag:

Smaller initiative die will give actual Initiative bonus more importance. By itself, this is a pretty decent houserule. I think I'd rather use d6 than d4 for bit more variance, though.

If you run D20 initiative, you could have sessions where a character with 5 or more initiative bonus than anyone else will always go last in all fights. It's one thing to use D20 on attack rolls, which are frequent. That evens out during a session, as each player rolls dozens of them. But Initiative roll happens only few times, or perhaps even once.

Does it overvalue Dex even more? Yes, and Dex indeed is a stat anyone who isn't rolling heavy armor melee build wants. But that's problem with Dex, not with winning initiative more often. Game needs to make sure people who dump some other stat for Dex get punished for it by targeted attacks on those weaker attributes.

Initiative could just as easily come from Wisdom (being able to predict your opponents next move) as it could from Dexterity.

A d4 initiative simply makes the "god stat" even more godly than it already was.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by InfernalSkys:

there's a mod that changes it to d20, i tried it and it really drags the combat on partly because turns will have a much lower chance of overlapping, it becomes very tedious after a while especially on a big fight, so I can understand why they made the change.

If I'm parsing this correctly, it's yet another attempt to inject "group initiative" into the game?

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Nomad:

Originally posted by Pookie101:

I assume it's a rule change for 5th edition D&D

It's not. You roll for initiative with a D20

Originally posted by zorlag:

Smaller initiative die will give actual Initiative bonus more importance. By itself, this is a pretty decent houserule. I think I'd rather use d6 than d4 for bit more variance, though.

If you run D20 initiative, you could have sessions where a character with 5 or more initiative bonus than anyone else will always go last in all fights. It's one thing to use D20 on attack rolls, which are frequent. That evens out during a session, as each player rolls dozens of them. But Initiative roll happens only few times, or perhaps even once.

Does it overvalue Dex even more? Yes, and Dex indeed is a stat anyone who isn't rolling heavy armor melee build wants. But that's problem with Dex, not with winning initiative more often. Game needs to make sure people who dump some other stat for Dex get punished for it by targeted attacks on those weaker attributes.

If Larian was going to go this rout then it may have been a good idea for them to reduce the initiative bonus on Alert. As it is, taking Alert practically guarantees that you will go first which is too powerful in my opinion and kind of makes your dice roll for initiative irrelevant. Cant be surprised is a really strong benefit as well.

I mean, isn't that sort of the point of Alert? You're investing a Feat into it after all, and at most you'll only get three entire game.

Of course, on top of your Dex bonus, you're looking at +10 to initiative, so anyone with less than +7 is guaranteed to lose to you no matter what.

[Nyaria]

d20 Initiative makes more sense. Sometimes the rogue isn't going first, They will survive. I assure you.