This game can be harder, much harder

[Shiryu]

I am big fan of DoS2, I finished DoS2 3 times, 2 times are with the highest difficulty level. and have played BG3 for 200+ hrs. I have finished bg3 with normal difficulty, which I feel it should really be easy difficulty not normal.
Well I am starting my second run with highest difficulty lvl but I already anticipated it won't be hard either.

what dramatically make the game easier:
First to attack gives you so much advantage.
Knowing the battle ground and deploy your team properly beforehand can give you big advantage.
many creative plays can almost one shot many fights.
the flexibility of saving/loading during a fight or a conversation is ... unbelievable.
bg3 is not strictly 5e, you can not rest as much as you want in real 5e, which basically makes the limitation of number of using spells unlimited.

I understand dev intentionally make the game easier to make it more approachable to broader audience. But for hard core crpg games, I just want challenges.

So I suggest another difficulty level, hell difficulty. What I want is the similar challenges as I play the highest difficulty level as in DoS2 or Pathfinder WotR.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Hex:

Originally posted by night4:

The game should have a sufficiently challenging harder mode to begin with. That is usually the basis for "challenge runs". Without actual challenge in the base mode, the challenge runs are too easy as well.

For example, I started BG3 on tactician with no prior knowledge and 4 casters. For extra challenge, I did not use reloading, multiclassing, Eldritch Blast, Abjuration Wizard, stealth, bombs, scrolls, invisibility, Wild Shape, darkness, or anything that reduces physical damage (among other restrictions). And guess what? I'm almost done with the game and no one has died in combat yet. And there's no challenge.

So you see: I did a "challenge run" my first try and it wasn't even remotely challenging. Many of us need the game to have a harder mode.

It's even easier with 4 Fighters that can kill everything in 1 turn, literally everything, thanks to action surge.

Here is the key thing people complaining about the game being too easy you seem to be missing. The game is designed to be beaten, there is always an easy way to win, because every game is designed to be like that.

It does not matter what the game is, there is a way to beat it easily. Name any game you can think of and there is a speedrun of someone beating it effortlessly. Difficulty in video games is an illusion unless you're playing against other humans, because a computer is CODED to lose.

Stop patting yourself on the back for beating a game you think is hard, because it isn't.

Most/all soulslikes, most roguelikes, XCOM (not so much the 2nd) on the top difficulty, battle brothers and darkest dungeon to a lesser extent, etc, etc etc... You can even go far back to games like Battletoads, or even some recent EA games like kingdoms reborn which is also brutal on the top difficulty.

Oh, and how could I forget, Rimworld as well, even the most veteran players who understand all the mechanics and rarely, if ever, lose anymore, will not call it an easy game, every moment is challenging, and you're always one slip away from total collapse on the highest difficulties.

Also, speedrunners never claim games are easy either, and they make it "look" easy, but that's no easy feat, even for them, they train, and train, and train, and train, all day, all night, to get all the muscle memory, all the reflexes to execute what could be considered a very long form combo to beat the game dodging everything on the path perfectly. Also, they fail over and over and over again in the process too.

So that statement would be absolutely false, and to claim that there is no difference between simply walking up to every enemy and killing them in one turn with a standard fighter build, and having to put in the training, and the study, on the level of professional athletes to pull off a speedrun is just absurd.

[Hex]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Originally posted by Hex:

It's even easier with 4 Fighters that can kill everything in 1 turn, literally everything, thanks to action surge.

Here is the key thing people complaining about the game being too easy you seem to be missing. The game is designed to be beaten, there is always an easy way to win, because every game is designed to be like that.

It does not matter what the game is, there is a way to beat it easily. Name any game you can think of and there is a speedrun of someone beating it effortlessly. Difficulty in video games is an illusion unless you're playing against other humans, because a computer is CODED to lose.

Stop patting yourself on the back for beating a game you think is hard, because it isn't.

Most/all soulslikes, most roguelikes, XCOM (not so much the 2nd) on the top difficulty, battle brothers and darkest dungeon to a lesser extent, etc, etc etc... You can even go far back to games like Battletoads, or even some recent EA games like kingdoms reborn which is also brutal on the top difficulty.

Oh, and how could I forget, Rimworld as well, even the most veteran players who understand all the mechanics and rarely, if ever, lose anymore, will not call it an easy game, every moment is challenging, and you're always one slip away from total collapse on the highest difficulties.

Also, speedrunners never claim games are easy either, and they make it "look" easy, but that's no easy feat, even for them, they train, and train, and train, and train, all day, all night, to get all the muscle memory, all the reflexes to execute what could be considered a very long form combo to beat the game dodging everything on the path perfectly. Also, they fail over and over and over again in the process too.

So that statement would be absolutely false, and to claim that there is no difference between simply walking up to every enemy and killing them in one turn with a standard fighter build, and having to put in the training, and the study, on the level of professional athletes to pull off a speedrun is just absurd.

You can find speedruns of every soulsclone out there, and that is my point, which you clearly missed. None of them are hard once you know how to beat them effectively.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Hex:

Originally posted by VoiD:

Most/all soulslikes, most roguelikes, XCOM (not so much the 2nd) on the top difficulty, battle brothers and darkest dungeon to a lesser extent, etc, etc etc... You can even go far back to games like Battletoads, or even some recent EA games like kingdoms reborn which is also brutal on the top difficulty.

Oh, and how could I forget, Rimworld as well, even the most veteran players who understand all the mechanics and rarely, if ever, lose anymore, will not call it an easy game, every moment is challenging, and you're always one slip away from total collapse on the highest difficulties.

Also, speedrunners never claim games are easy either, and they make it "look" easy, but that's no easy feat, even for them, they train, and train, and train, and train, all day, all night, to get all the muscle memory, all the reflexes to execute what could be considered a very long form combo to beat the game dodging everything on the path perfectly. Also, they fail over and over and over again in the process too.

So that statement would be absolutely false, and to claim that there is no difference between simply walking up to every enemy and killing them in one turn with a standard fighter build, and having to put in the training, and the study, on the level of professional athletes to pull off a speedrun is just absurd.

You can find speedruns of every soulsclone out there, and that is my point.

And your point would still be wrong.

[Hex]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Originally posted by Hex:

You can find speedruns of every soulsclone out there, and that is my point.

And your point would still be wrong.

Ahh yes, because you said so. LMAO blocked, troll harder.

[Edelgris]

Originally posted by night4:

Originally posted by Edelgris:

That doesn't sound like a challenge run to me. A challenge run is designed specifically to make the game challenging, which your run setup obviously didn't.

If you're unable to come up with rules for a suitable challenge run, I'm sure there's people right here on this forum that can help you out. Ask for some help for a suitable challenge. Play it, come back and let us know how it went.

These forums are filled with people claiming that casters are "weak", therefore using all casters in a blind run with several restrictions on the more abuseable 5e caster mechanics is, in fact, a "challenge run".

I'm sure we'd love to hear all about the several challenge runs you've done in BG3 so far though.

What made you think this sounded reasonable when you hit 'Post Comment'? What's the point of arguing this way? It makes no sense.

If someone else said something on the forum, that automatically makes it true? Is this the supposed logic behind your argument? If people said on the forums that finishing the game on Explorer was hard, you would use that to argue that playing on Explorer is a Challenge Run?

What's the point of being defensive to such a silly degree? I don't even...

[Mintiper]

then dont use the options that make it to easy for you? dont save/load mid fight, dont reload if you are in a fight by suprise, dont use "tactics" like put people on stack of crates that you carry around. the only thing they can do to make it harder is to cheat. or add that you make less dmg if you dont have full hp. everything else is "we give them 4 times more hp, and double any dmg they do"

[dusteki]

Originally posted by Shiryu:

I am big fan of DoS2, I finished DoS2 3 times, 2 times are with the highest difficulty level. and have played BG3 for 200+ hrs. I have finished bg3 with normal difficulty, which I feel it should really be easy difficulty not normal.
Well I am starting my second run with highest difficulty lvl but I already anticipated it won't be hard either.

what dramatically make the game easier:
First to attack gives you so much advantage.
Knowing the battle ground and deploy your team properly beforehand can give you big advantage.
many creative plays can almost one shot many fights.

Ah, using tactics. So unfair as compared to applying fifteen thousand buffs after pursuing a PhD in Buildology MinMaxing.

[dusteki]

Originally posted by Shiryu:

Originally posted by Faefu:

i find it weird how these soul-like players some how forgotten that dice rolls are our fate, and that this is a dungeons and dragons game.

The dice is good, to add the sense of uncertainty or fate. And the game is so flexible in saving makes it just save/load scam. That is why allowing saving/loading during combat or conversation is controversial.

So don't do it.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Edelgris:

Originally posted by night4:

These forums are filled with people claiming that casters are "weak", therefore using all casters in a blind run with several restrictions on the more abuseable 5e caster mechanics is, in fact, a "challenge run".

I'm sure we'd love to hear all about the several challenge runs you've done in BG3 so far though.

What made you think this sounded reasonable when you hit 'Post Comment'? What's the point of arguing this way? It makes no sense.

If someone else said something on the forum, that automatically makes it true? Is this the supposed logic behind your argument? If people said on the forums that finishing the game on Explorer was hard, you would use that to argue that playing on Explorer is a Challenge Run?

What's the point of being defensive to such a silly degree? I don't even...

I see you ignored my point about your own challenge runs. I wonder why...

And most people agree that casters are objectively weaker early on in cRPGs with BG3 as no exception. Therefore, again, the early game should be a challenge for 4 casters. And it's not, even with restrictions.

I suspect you'll ignore what I said yet again, though, because you have no "challenge run" experience and you have no response to anything beyond feigning exasperation.

[Hex]

Originally posted by dusteki:

Originally posted by Shiryu:

I am big fan of DoS2, I finished DoS2 3 times, 2 times are with the highest difficulty level. and have played BG3 for 200+ hrs. I have finished bg3 with normal difficulty, which I feel it should really be easy difficulty not normal.
Well I am starting my second run with highest difficulty lvl but I already anticipated it won't be hard either.

what dramatically make the game easier:
First to attack gives you so much advantage.
Knowing the battle ground and deploy your team properly beforehand can give you big advantage.
many creative plays can almost one shot many fights.

Ah, using tactics. So unfair as compared to applying fifteen thousand buffs after pursuing a PhD in Buildology MinMaxing.

At least a PhD in MinMaxing requires *some* effort and understanding of the game you're playing.

Stacking boxes ontop of eachother and auto-winning because the AI isn't programmed to destroy them requires nothing.

[Edelgris]

Originally posted by night4:

Originally posted by Edelgris:

What made you think this sounded reasonable when you hit 'Post Comment'? What's the point of arguing this way? It makes no sense.

If someone else said something on the forum, that automatically makes it true? Is this the supposed logic behind your argument? If people said on the forums that finishing the game on Explorer was hard, you would use that to argue that playing on Explorer is a Challenge Run?

What's the point of being defensive to such a silly degree? I don't even...

I see you ignored my point about your own challenge runs. I wonder why...

And most people agree that casters are objectively weaker early on in cRPGs with BG3 as no exception. Therefore, again, the early game should be a challenge for 4 casters. And it's not, even with restrictions.

I suspect you'll ignore what I said yet again, though, because you have no "challenge run" experience and you have no response to anything beyond feigning exasperation.

My challenge run experience is not relevant to me suggesting that you ask people to help you with setting up a proper challenge run. You're clearly just throwing around ad hominem fallacies right now.

[talemore]

load diffulty

every minute you have to reload the game

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Edelgris:

Originally posted by night4:

I see you ignored my point about your own challenge runs. I wonder why...

And most people agree that casters are objectively weaker early on in cRPGs with BG3 as no exception. Therefore, again, the early game should be a challenge for 4 casters. And it's not, even with restrictions.

I suspect you'll ignore what I said yet again, though, because you have no "challenge run" experience and you have no response to anything beyond feigning exasperation.

My challenge run experience is not relevant to me suggesting that you ask people to help you with setting up a proper challenge run. You're clearly just throwing around ad hominem fallacies right now.

Actually, it is relevant since you judged my challenge run to not be worthy (by your invisible criteria). What basis do you have for that if you have done no BG3 challenge runs yourself?

And you keep ignoring what I've said many times on early game casters. I'll take that to mean you know I'm right.

[pirate135246]

there are some ways they can make it harder that wouldn't negatively impact the bottom tier players. Haste is way too strong it should be reverted to how it is supposed to work in 5e, give enemies more initiative, casual players are probably not building for initiative anyway, but this would make it more likely that you dont auto win and go first every combat. Also nerf the xp gain in tactician because it is far to easy to get overleveled rn

[Edelgris]

Originally posted by night4:

Originally posted by Edelgris:

My challenge run experience is not relevant to me suggesting that you ask people to help you with setting up a proper challenge run. You're clearly just throwing around ad hominem fallacies right now.

Actually, it is relevant since you judged my challenge run to not be worthy (by your invisible criteria). What basis do you have for that if you have done no BG3 challenge runs yourself?

And you keep ignoring what I've said many times on early game casters. I'll take that to mean you know I'm right.

I haven't done any BG3 challenge runs yet, and neither have you. That makes us equals on that topic.