A Bear Cannot Consent

[muu suu nuu]

The title says it all.

It doesn't matter if it's a "druid" or whtever.. At the end of the day, human/animal intercourse is unconsensual and therefore morally evil.

The anime girls and redditors will disagree below.

Also, my other thread got banned for being "combative" lol. Not sure how saying that a bear cannot consent is combative. But these are strange and perverted times, I suppose.

[Samvega]

Originally posted by barrybarrington90:

Even though I knew this was a bad faith position, I humoured it, and added that the language in the game quite clearly states Halsin intends to stay in bear form. And it isn't "careful" about it.

Do quote that language.

[Samvega]

Originally posted by Makkura:

While the druids mind remains his own, the body is factually and in all regards the animal he shapes into.

So, Halsin is still mentally and psychologically human and makes human decisions based on human preferences?

[barrybarrington90]

Originally posted by Samvega:

Originally posted by barrybarrington90:

Even though I knew this was a bad faith position, I humoured it, and added that the language in the game quite clearly states Halsin intends to stay in bear form. And it isn't "careful" about it.

Do quote that language.

I already did. Halsin warns the player that if he stays in bear form, the sex will be vigorous and "large". The player can then confirm that they like "large", and the scene ensues.

There is no room for interpretation, neither in Lariens statement nor the game. And this is completely different to your original arguments, which undermines both that argument and this one. Stick by your guns.

[1337_h4x0r_xXx_deathlord666_xXx]

Originally posted by Makkura:

While the druids mind remains his own

Thanks for proving my point. They are not an actual bear, as they still have their mind.

[Makkura]

Originally posted by Samvega:

Originally posted by Makkura:

While the druids mind remains his own, the body is factually and in all regards the animal he shapes into.

So, Halsin is still mentally and psychologically human and makes human decisions based on human preferences?

He retains his memories and his ego and his mental capabilities.
He looses however for example the ability to express himself, if the animal he turns into can't speak.

[Samvega]

Originally posted by barrybarrington90:

Halsin warns the player that if he stays in bear form, the sex will be vigorous and "large". The player can then confirm that they like "large", and the scene ensues.

There is no room for interpretation, neither in Lariens statement nor the game. And this is completely different to your original arguments, which undermines both that argument and this one. Stick by your guns.

There is room for interpretation. If you come to my house and I warn you "my kids might kill you!", that does not mean my kids will kill you.
Halsin can make this amusing comment without intending to stay in bear form.

Irregardless: why is it still 'unethical' if this act is not shown? You did not have to imagine the implied act.

[Makkura]

Originally posted by Dαятн Wαfflεmαncεя:

Originally posted by Makkura:

While the druids mind remains his own

Thanks for proving my point. They are not an actual bear, as they still have their mind.

Define what makes a bear a bear.
Surely you have more points than "it does not have consciousness."

[1337_h4x0r_xXx_deathlord666_xXx]

Originally posted by Makkura:

Originally posted by Samvega:

So, Halsin is still mentally and psychologically human and makes human decisions based on human preferences?

He retains his memories and his ego and his mental capabilities.
He looses however for example the ability to express himself, if the animal he turns into can't speak.

However he still is able to communicate non-verbally...ie by giving signs like pointing, or writing stuff in the dirt. Both are arguably within the cababilities of their wildshaped form.

[Samvega]

Originally posted by Makkura:

Originally posted by Dαятн Wαfflεmαncεя:

Thanks for proving my point. They are not an actual bear, as they still have their mind.

Define what makes a bear a bear.
Surely you have more points than "it does not have consciousness."

A bear with your brother's brain and consciousness is not a bear.

[1337_h4x0r_xXx_deathlord666_xXx]

Originally posted by Makkura:

Originally posted by Dαятн Wαfflεmαncεя:

Thanks for proving my point. They are not an actual bear, as they still have their mind.

Define what makes a bear a bear.
Surely you have more points than "it does not have consciousness."

Hypothetical question: Let's imagine our medicine and technology are a bit further.
I start turning my physical characteristics bit by bit into that of a bear.
At what exact point do I stop being a human?

[=(^ ^)=]

Actually that's a scene they should have avoided. Even if we are talking about a shapeshifter druid, the message is still bad.

[barrybarrington90]

Originally posted by Samvega:

Originally posted by barrybarrington90:

Halsin warns the player that if he stays in bear form, the sex will be vigorous and "large". The player can then confirm that they like "large", and the scene ensues.

There is no room for interpretation, neither in Lariens statement nor the game. And this is completely different to your original arguments, which undermines both that argument and this one. Stick by your guns.

There is room for interpretation. If you come to my house and I warn you "my kids might kill you!", that does not mean my kids will kill you.
Halsin can make this amusing comment without intending to stay in bear form.

Irregardless: why is it still 'unethical' if this act is not shown? You did not have to imagine the implied act.

There is no room for interpretation, you're merely being facetious and pedantic. Which, again, undermines your original argument, the one I presume you honestly believed. Although it's entirely possible you believe neither.

[Makkura]

Originally posted by Dαятн Wαfflεmαncεя:

Originally posted by Makkura:

Define what makes a bear a bear.
Surely you have more points than "it does not have consciousness."

Hypothetical question: Let's imagine our medicine and technology are a bit further.
I start turning my physical characteristics bit by bit into that of a bear.
At what exact point do I stop being a human?

Never, since you do not change your genetic makeup.
That is fundamentally different for wild shape. Your body gets replaced by a body of a bear, as described by "When you transform, you assume the beast’s hit points and Hit Dice. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed."

[Wiegs]

Originally posted by Samvega:

Originally posted by Makkura:

Define what makes a bear a bear.
Surely you have more points than "it does not have consciousness."

A bear with your brother's brain and consciousness is not a bear.

I'd even add, your brother physically transformed into a bear while retaining all his human memories and mental abilities and able to turn back into a human at will is not, in fact, a bear

[Gigantoad]

Originally posted by VictoryImmune:

Has anyone pointed out yet that we don't require an animal's consent for anything we do or have done to them? But if it's sex, OMG WE NEED THEM TO GIVE WRITTEN CONSENT BECAUSE OBOOS!

ty, I win, go back to crying in your bible now.

Not even sex really. Look at animal husbandry, which is basically rape. Granted, we don't put our own genitals in them but we sure put stuff in to make them pregnant. It's certainly a sexual act that the animal cannot give and has not given consent to.

Not to mention, we kill them because we wanna eat them. We kill bears, wolfs and all sorts of animals when they get too dangerous. Heck, we kill them just for sport.

But some innocent, fictional scene in a video game creates outrage? I wonder how many of these people will eat a nice steak later. It's just the typical human hypocrisy.