Thought intimidation was a strength check..

[Martin]

Larian just making it up as they go along? I get 2 rolls of a d20 against a charisma check of 21.. why? Why not just make it an instant fail instead of just wasting my time?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3022610772

You know what this is? A reload the game check.

[High Foodcourt]

Originally posted by Martin:

I hate dnd, haven't played it for 20-25 years... I like rpg games.. I absolutely detest dnd.

this is a dungeons and dragons game.

[Martin]

Originally posted by 🅱⭕🅱R⭕D⭕🅱R⭕🍷:

uninstall and never come back here

Why? Apples and Oranges mate.

[Zogtar]

Originally posted by Martin:

Larian just making it up as they go along? I get 2 rolls of a d20 against a charisma check of 21.. why? Why not just make it an instant fail instead of just wasting my time?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3022610772

You know what this is? A reload the game check.

Nat 20 is always a pass just like a Nat 1 is always a fail.

There's absolutely no reason to instant fail.

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by Martin:

Yeh.. but I'd say Wisdom counters lying.. wisdom and experience.. not charisma..

Yeah, those are called Perception and Insight checks.

[Elizadeath]

in 5e, charisma covers all the "talkey" skills. that being said, it specifies that in the DM's guide that a DM can make an exception and let a player use STR over CHA on some occasions. its a bespoke thing that isn't meant to be the general rule, and so that 'exceptions only' ruling would not work in a game like BG3. one of those oddities brought about by bringing modern dnd to a game

[Martin]

Originally posted by High Foodcourt:

Originally posted by Martin:

I hate dnd, haven't played it for 20-25 years... I like rpg games.. I absolutely detest dnd.

this is a dungeons and dragons game.

It's a role playing game.. the dice rolls are made to look like dnd and I try largely to ignore that part of the game.. I'm not really interested in it, my sons play dnd every week, they love bg3 and even they say they'd never play these rules.. they play a modded dnd.. a fairer, smarter system.. which I think makes more sense it's just a pity larian doesn't think so.

[NoShotz]

Originally posted by Martin:

Originally posted by Leslian Lexter:

You got it the wrong way around. Sure, card tricks and illusions is a form of deception. But so is lying, which is primarily 9/10 cases what the deception check is used for. Dont need your fast hands for that.
Besides things that requires fast hands, usually use the sleight of hand check.

Yeh.. but I'd say Wisdom counters lying.. wisdom and experience.. not charisma..

I'm saying from a basic I don't do dnd standpoint.. if I have 3 options. I expect to actually get 3 options.

Not 1 option pretending to be 3. I am offered a Deception Check, Intimidation check and Persuasion check.. now to me, that looks like a str, dex and wisdom check, but I mouseover the tooltips.. all 3 are charisma checks.. so.. given the highest in the group has 10.. it's a we all automatically loose check. It's a reload the game check then reroll your class check..

I'm fine with that.. from a non dnd perspective.

The thing is, underneath of the charisma ability, there are 4 skills, Deception, Intimidation,, Performance, and Persuasion, which you can choose to have proficiency in when creating a character.

https://i.imgur.com/NlZtegk.png

[NoShotz]

Originally posted by Martin:

Originally posted by High Foodcourt:

this is a dungeons and dragons game.

It's a role playing game.. the dice rolls are made to look like dnd and I try largely to ignore that part of the game.. I'm not really interested in it, my sons play dnd every week, they love bg3 and even they say they'd never play these rules.. they play a modded dnd.. a fairer, smarter system.. which I think makes more sense it's just a pity larian doesn't think so.

No, literally everything comes from DnD, the spells, the amounts of damage they do, everything to do with character creation, the movement rules when in combat, the creatures and races. There is no way to separate the DnD from BG3, they are one in the same.

[Daliena]

Originally posted by Martin:

Originally posted by Leslian Lexter:

You got it the wrong way around. Sure, card tricks and illusions is a form of deception. But so is lying, which is primarily 9/10 cases what the deception check is used for. Dont need your fast hands for that.
Besides things that requires fast hands, usually use the sleight of hand check.

Yeh.. but I'd say Wisdom counters lying.. wisdom and experience.. not charisma..

I'm saying from a basic I don't do dnd standpoint.. if I have 3 options. I expect to actually get 3 options.

Not 1 option pretending to be 3. I am offered a Deception Check, Intimidation check and Persuasion check.. now to me, that looks like a str, dex and wisdom check, but I mouseover the tooltips.. all 3 are charisma checks.. so.. given the highest in the group has 10.. it's a we all automatically loose check. It's a reload the game check then reroll your class check..

I'm fine with that.. from a non dnd perspective.

The choice is 1: How you want to roleplay it and 2: You might be proficient in one or two, but not all three, perhaps. My paladin was proficient in Persuasion, but not so much Intimidation or Deception.

Also, they're Charisma checks because.. Well, first of all, that's how it's ALWAYS been in D&D. There's a lot more ways to be scary than "ME HULK, ME SMASH!". You want scary with a low strength but high charisma? Try the Sorcerer who goes into excruciating detail about how they're going to use their spells on you if you don't sit down and shut the hell up.

Deception is lies, not card tricks or sleight of hand. That falls under, well, SLEIGHT OF HAND. Which scales off of Dexterity. Being agile doesn't help you convince people to believe your lies.

And even the best argument that Wisdom might muster can fall flat if you're a god-awful speaker with the charisma of a potted plant. It's not just what you say, it's also HOW you say it.

[Ivas]

Originally posted by Martin:

Originally posted by Leslian Lexter:

You got it the wrong way around. Sure, card tricks and illusions is a form of deception. But so is lying, which is primarily 9/10 cases what the deception check is used for. Dont need your fast hands for that.
Besides things that requires fast hands, usually use the sleight of hand check.

Yeh.. but I'd say Wisdom counters lying.. wisdom and experience.. not charisma..

I'm saying from a basic I don't do dnd standpoint.. if I have 3 options. I expect to actually get 3 options.

Not 1 option pretending to be 3. I am offered a Deception Check, Intimidation check and Persuasion check.. now to me, that looks like a str, dex and wisdom check, but I mouseover the tooltips.. all 3 are charisma checks.. so.. given the highest in the group has 10.. it's a we all automatically loose check. It's a reload the game check then reroll your class check..

I'm fine with that.. from a non dnd perspective.

Wisdom IS counters lying. It's called insight. But being able to tell that person is lying /= ability to lie

[Martin]

Originally posted by Elizadeath:

in 5e, charisma covers all the "talkey" skills. that being said, it specifies that in the DM's guide that a DM can make an exception and let a player use STR over CHA on some occasions. its a bespoke thing that isn't meant to be the general rule, and so that 'exceptions only' ruling would not work in a game like BG3. one of those oddities brought about by bringing modern dnd to a game

Except of course when it does.. for example I can use my spell ability for my weapon damage if I use bind weapon So I can purposefully make my character weak in str and use chr as my weapon damage.. which is cool.. doesn't make an ounce of sense but I'm cool with it.

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

Originally posted by Martin:

I hate dnd, haven't played it for 20-25 years... I like rpg games.. I absolutely detest dnd.

All the checks are charisma checks, intimidation, persuasion, deception... should be Str, Wis and Dex checks.. but apparently you can just change the rules as you wish, so now I have to go back to camp, reroll my character to high Chr to win 1 stupid roll.. for a tiny part of the game..

Ok.. feels like i'm cheating or scumming the game, cheesing it maybe.. but sure larian if that's the deal.. I'll take it.

I hate dnd but bought this dnd game so i can complain about it---got it. FYI go play something else you won't like this DND GAME! cause ya know its dnd...

FYI intimidate has never been str or con its always been charisma even in 3.0 and it didn't exist in 2e... so you either miss remembering or making ♥♥♥♥ up.

[Martin]

Originally posted by NoShotz:

Originally posted by Martin:

It's a role playing game.. the dice rolls are made to look like dnd and I try largely to ignore that part of the game.. I'm not really interested in it, my sons play dnd every week, they love bg3 and even they say they'd never play these rules.. they play a modded dnd.. a fairer, smarter system.. which I think makes more sense it's just a pity larian doesn't think so.

No, literally everything comes from DnD, the spells, the amounts of damage they do, the movement rules when in combat, the creatures and races. There is no way to separate the DnD from BG3, they are one in the same.

Yeh.. you're missing out the dungeon master who guides the players.. who makes exceptions to the rules.. so no not really the same.. like Sea Water and Fresh Water aren't the same.

[Daliena]

Originally posted by Martin:

Originally posted by Elizadeath:

in 5e, charisma covers all the "talkey" skills. that being said, it specifies that in the DM's guide that a DM can make an exception and let a player use STR over CHA on some occasions. its a bespoke thing that isn't meant to be the general rule, and so that 'exceptions only' ruling would not work in a game like BG3. one of those oddities brought about by bringing modern dnd to a game

Except of course when it does.. for example I can use my spell ability for my weapon damage if I use bind weapon So I can purposefully make my character weak in str and use chr as my weapon damage.. which is cool.. doesn't make an ounce of sense but I'm cool with it.

Because exceptions exist. Like a Warlock with magic powers being able to imbue their weapon with said magic so that it's reliant on their magic, rather than their physical prowess.

[Leslian Lexter]

Originally posted by Martin:

Originally posted by High Foodcourt:

this is a dungeons and dragons game.

It's a role playing game.. the dice rolls are made to look like dnd and I try largely to ignore that part of the game.. I'm not really interested in it, my sons play dnd every week, they love bg3 and even they say they'd never play these rules.. they play a modded dnd.. a fairer, smarter system.. which I think makes more sense it's just a pity larian doesn't think so.

The game is literally made from the 5th edition dnd Players Handbooks rule, almost to the teeth.

If you like this game, you like dnd.