Fix Stealth please

[WolfVonhinslik]

I am so tired of the stealth system in this game and its getting really annoying.
Im an Assassin Rogue, my whole thing is sneaky strong hits

Im stealth, the enemy runs right at me which it shouldn't know im there but fine. I pass my stealth check. Only for the MF to turn away, then turn back so it gets another check, ive had things do this 3, 4 or even 5 times. Then if the enemy has anything that just reveals hidden things it then casts that.

Whats the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ point of having a stealthy character when im just punished for doing so, its super annoying and happens constantly. Enemies should get one check a turn period, its absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and really gets on my nerves.

[WolfVonhinslik]

Originally posted by SoloQ:

Originally posted by WolfVonhinslik:

This is in combat so its already turn based. In combat the enemy will run at me (regardless if my "last known" is nowhere near me) ill pass the check, then while doing its turn it will turn around then turn back to get another check which is really dumb and not how it works in DnD at all.



Great job on your reading comprehension. I play and DM DnD among many other TTRPGs, you dont get multiple checks a turn, if a creature tried to detect your stealth and fails then it dosent get to turn around, then turn back around to get another check, it gets one period. Next turn it can try to check again but one per turn period

NPCs can search for you once they stop. And that's exactly what's happening to you. You're close to where they last saw you or close enough for them to spot you while searching. They get a roll to spot you naturally when they move and then they're using either a bonus or an action to search for you.
Stealth is working as intended. Searching also breaks you out of invisibility so be careful which how close you are to your last location. I've gotten out of combat with sneak so I know for certain it's working.

Wrong, I had an enemy run at me, fail its check 3 times, then run over to shadowheart and beat her instead... they do not have to end there turn to get a check

[mouse223]

Originally posted by WolfVonhinslik:

I am so tired of the stealth system in this game and its getting really annoying.
Im an Assassin Rogue, my whole thing is sneaky strong hits

Im stealth, the enemy runs right at me which it shouldn't know im there but fine. I pass my stealth check. Only for the MF to turn away, then turn back so it gets another check, ive had things do this 3, 4 or even 5 times. Then if the enemy has anything that just reveals hidden things it then casts that.

Whats the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ point of having a stealthy character when im just punished for doing so, its super annoying and happens constantly. Enemies should get one check a turn period, its absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and really gets on my nerves.

agreed the mobs getting 3 - 5 checks is garbage

[WolfVonhinslik]

For everyone saying Stealth is OP, okay then fix that, dont allow every damned enemy to get multiple checks and basically always know where i am. This is supposed to be DnD, in Table top Stealth is very strong, but theres other ways to fix it.

also FFS I know I can go into turn based, this is during combat which is already turn based.

[SDxEair]

There are a some huge problems with stealth in this game. Mostly it makes it way more powerful than it should be, but in this case the OP is right, enemies totally can get multiple perception checks to find you in a single turn. The 5e stealth rules aren't perfect, but if the game was closer to them it would be far better.

Biggest problems I have seen:
1) No checks are made for moving silently. If you are outside an enemies vision cone and stealthed, they can't see you at all, regardless of stealth skill, even if you are right next to them. Its ridiculous someone in full plate with a -1 stealth skill can sneak up behind someone to get an attack with advantage due to this.
2) When stealth checks are made, they are made too often. In normal 5e rules you make ONE stealth check when you take the action, and if that beats their passive perception you are hidden, unless you don't meet the conditions to be stealthed. They can take their action to search if they want to roll their own perceprtion check of course, but thats fine. The conditions to be stealthed are one of the only things larian really gets right, since stealth auto-fails if you have no form of concealment from an enemy, which is great. But the way the game forces you to make a stealth check for each enemy that has vision on you, and every time an enemy turns to face you, and then again when they make their search action, means only masters of stealth have a chance of stealthing inside vision cones, and even then they will eventually roll a 1 with all the check spam. Basically, with just 1 check like 5e should be, a 60% chance to stealth is indeed a 60% chance to stealth. But with a spam of multiple rolls from every enemy, that 60% quickly dwindles to near 0.
But due to number 1 above, and the ability to enter turn based mode, you can work around number 2 being a problem most of the time, as you can just never enter vision cones unless you have to. Ironically, this means your stealth skill doesn't matter for stealthing most of the time, since no rolls are ever made if you are outside vision cones, which is again silly.

[SDxEair]

Of course, fixing number 1 without also fixing number 2, would make stealth almost never work and impossible to use.

[Xiwang]

i had the same problem, turn based mode always solve it, also get the expertise in stealth to surprise enemies you need to win against their perception rolls, getting guidance before the ambush is a good idea too.

also the light, try to get a place in full darkness. the sun icon in where you are standing represents the light lvls.

[Oshikatsu]

Originally posted by Wolfdoggie:

I just wish friendly NPCs didn't break your stealth in combat. For example if the two NPCs are with you when you go to fight the owlbear they totally block off your ability to stealth into the den and block your stealth during battle.

Amen.

[Darkaiser]

A few things that I wish to point out:
1) The game is based on D&D. BASED ON...not 'Direct translation of'. I believe that this is the description I've seen multiple times.
2) Some of the things that deviate from the D&D RAW are in the player's favor, such as getting an additional Ki point as a lvl 1 Monk (Boy, don't I wish THAT was true in D&D 5e!).
3) Quite a few of the spells do not work the same and this is WAI.
4) The Player's Handbook and DMG EXPRESSLY STATE that you cannot Hide in plain sight. TBH, the fact that we get the 'Red Vision Area' thing is greatly to our benefit because we can observe the enemy's movements and stay ONE SQUARE out of their sight line. Yeah...because that's exactly how D&D works in 5e. Right.....

Stealth with an Assassin is NOT an 'I win' button.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by WolfVonhinslik:

This is in combat so its already turn based. In combat the enemy will run at me (regardless if my "last known" is nowhere near me) ill pass the check, then while doing its turn it will turn around then turn back to get another check which is really dumb and not how it works in DnD at all.

Yes they will, they are trying to find you and they will spread out a bit to do so. They do a reasonable job of it too, although in my experience different enemies are better at it than others which is presumably intentional. They don't do this unless:

a) you've already shot somebody
b) that somebody is still breathing, or
c) one of the somebody's comrades noticed them perish

However they do give up after a bit if they can't find you, although they seem to remain on higher alert.

I'm playing Astarion with assassin spec and in my experience he can be spectacularly deadly. For example he downed the Spider Queen and her two phase spider guards entirely on his own. One of the reasons he could do that is 'cos the spiders, unlike the golbins, did not actively search for him if they couldn't see him.

On the other hand he can also get spectacularly dead himself if he gets rumbled. In other words stealth assassin play is a high risk high reward enterprise. If you want to save scum it's easy. If you want to play straight then you've either got to put significant time and effort into scouting, risk assessment and planning or you got to limit yourself to low hanging fruit.

[wtiger27]

Stealth is fine in the game. Just requires some basic thinking and understanding the rules and conditions to use it effectively. I soloed Yurgir using stealth mechanics and geared well for stealth checks and using my Gloomstalker Ranger.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by wtiger27:

Stealth is fine in the game. Just requires some basic thinking and understanding the rules and conditions to use it effectively. I soloed Yurgir using stealth mechanics and geared well for stealth checks and using my Gloomstalker Ranger.

No its actually broken. Speak when you actually know what you are talking about save the "thinking" for people who can actually do that. Thanks.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Actually there is one very easy way to counter it.
Firstly if you are doing stealth then u should not bring your whole squad with you.
Go with the stealther, and equip him with mostly momentum items. Because every momentum gives +1.5 meter speed. So for instance my sneaker guy a ranger, can attack 3 times a turn(or 4 if hordebreaker and 6 if also speed potion). I usually basic toxin his blades. I sneak at the enemy alone, hit him from behind with all attacks, ->surprise first round. then just sneak away 20 meters further...next round i will start with high init, enter sneak, and move 20 meters away. It is the position they will go where they last saw my guy visible. Since i am 20 meters away i am out of their sight, and even with dash they cannot really get into a range where i am in sight. If you have in first round(when you first attack and surprise them) your basic action still, you can even dash away, so 40-50 meters away you enter sneak there is no way they will find you:)
Momentum and Sneak synergize well.

[Dufflebags]

Sounds like you're being punished by bad pathing from the AI IMO.

But I agree, limiting enemies to one check per turn would be a much better experience.

[jbkilroy]

I think they're just following series tradition. As I recall, at higher levels in Baldur's Gate 2, if you stealthed or were magically invisible, the instant your character entered one pixel of the sight range of an NPC that could cast See Invisible, they would.

Sure it didn't make any sense then either, but at least there's precedent.

[5P4RK4]

Stealth and entering combat (and even mid combat tbh) is so wildly busted if they made it one check per turn it would completely trivialize the entire game. There has to be some give and take to make this a real video game that anyone would want to play.