Who is Withers?

[Alex_x86]

So I finished the game and saw the video after the end credits. Now I am quite confused on who is Withers? I am not too much in DnD or BG lore so wondering if somebody can explain that bit to me.

[PaloG]

Assuming he is indeed an avatar of Jergal and not some sort of vassal to him what puzzles me is his literal first line of dialogue. "So He has spoken, and so thou standest before me. Right as always." Who would be the He in this case?

[Zerostalgia]

Publicado originalmente por kblaze13:

Publicado originalmente por Zerostalgia:

Oh yeah totally technically not a god anymore but c'mon former gods or dead gods in FR are as bad as a DC or Marvel superhero in terms of how they're "never coming back". Helm died, Bhaal scattered his essence in the Bhaalspawn crisis... Just because a god is no longer romping around doesn't mean it's the end of their power, right? Definitely Jergal has the power to not need to hang out in the sarcophagus and especially given Withers does come and find you if you skip the temple it doesn't even matter if he is literally Jergal or not - Jergal has enough power as is.

You can not like it all you want, they wrote it out as the "Second Sundering" where Ao literally recreated the Tablets of Fate and brought back the dead gods including the all Drow gods, the dead three, Helm, Tyr, Mystra, and a bunch of others.

Bunch of ♥♥♥♥ also happened on the mortal plane too, it basically was a way for WotC to "reset" Faerun for the changes to the game they were making.

I don't dislike it I think it's fine to retcon the 4e lore, that era was very confused about what to do.

[n#n#m#]

Publicado originalmente por Zerostalgia:

He just has that sense of humour?

He gave away his divinity because he was bored of his stature, he's unhinged alright.

[Khryst]

Publicado originalmente por Zerostalgia:

Publicado originalmente por Matticus:

He isn't a huge fan of Myrkul
He has been known to try and undermine the new Gods of death before Kelemvor

And why can't a devotee perform Withers's role?

1.Kelemvor doesn't send devotee's after his massive screw up when he was still a "young" God of Death. Which basically now makes him act with indifference. He still doesn't ignore his responsibilities of course just has no care over good/neutral/evil faithful/faithless, etc.

2.Jergal really doesn't like the dead three (especially Myrkul), does like Kelemvor, and as the "Seneschal of Death" he feels it's one of his responsibilities when something possibly is disrupting the balance of the Realm of Death.

[Shale]

Publicado originalmente por PaloG:

Assuming he is indeed an avatar of Jergal and not some sort of vassal to him what puzzles me is his literal first line of dialogue. "So He has spoken, and so thou standest before me. Right as always." Who would be the He in this case?

This is what's bothering me as well, and something I've yet to find a satisfying answer to. But there's more than enough to point to Withers being Jergal, it just leaves that one dialogue feeling weirdly out of place, almost like an intentional misdirect.

[Snake Bit]

Publicado originalmente por ᛊᚨᛁᛚᛟᚱ ᛗᛟᛟᚾ:

It's the god Jergal

A servant of Jergal.

[AdAstraWill]

Publicado originalmente por The Ghost Ship:

Publicado originalmente por Aikido:

He's Jergal but my headcanon is that he is the desiccated remains of live action Skeletor from the ill fated 1987 film, played by Frank Langella. Having returned wiser, immortal, and more indifferent to our shenanigans.

Withers is love, Withers is life.

Withers is love, Withers is life. Withers will bone you if you kill all your party with smite.


...




(I am joking obviously, pls no withers romance lol)

[Matticus]

Publicado originalmente por Shale:

Publicado originalmente por PaloG:

Assuming he is indeed an avatar of Jergal and not some sort of vassal to him what puzzles me is his literal first line of dialogue. "So He has spoken, and so thou standest before me. Right as always." Who would be the He in this case?

This is what's bothering me as well, and something I've yet to find a satisfying answer to. But there's more than enough to point to Withers being Jergal, it just leaves that one dialogue feeling weirdly out of place, almost like an intentional misdirect.

could be talking about Kelemvor who is his boss.

[Soul in Shadow]

Publicado originalmente por PaloG:

Assuming he is indeed an avatar of Jergal and not some sort of vassal to him what puzzles me is his literal first line of dialogue. "So He has spoken, and so thou standest before me. Right as always." Who would be the He in this case?

Both that line and the reply you get if you ask Withers who "he" is, implies that "he" was someone who regularly had insight into the future. My assumption would be a god of Time or Fate, although I don't know enough about the pantheon to identify a specific diety

[Shale]

Publicado originalmente por Matticus:

Publicado originalmente por Shale:

This is what's bothering me as well, and something I've yet to find a satisfying answer to. But there's more than enough to point to Withers being Jergal, it just leaves that one dialogue feeling weirdly out of place, almost like an intentional misdirect.

could be talking about Kelemvor who is his boss.

It certainly could be, my problem is that it's left to open speculation with nothing really to go off. If when you asked Withers who "he" is, if he mentioned something about his boss, then we could say that yeah he seems to be talking about Kelemvor. As it stand it's a shrug and a guess, which is what makes it unsatisfying to me at least, especially when Larian are usually so much better about seeding lore through the game.

[wendigo211]

If you play a paladin, when you first meet him there's an option to probe his power, if you're successful, the game suggests he may be a chosen (like Elminster). So he probably is either Jergal or the chosen of Jergal.

Last I heard though, Jergal was working as scribe for Kelemvor. That doesn't mean he can't be in two places at once.

[DinoMight]

Publicado originalmente por PaloG:

Assuming he is indeed an avatar of Jergal and not some sort of vassal to him what puzzles me is his literal first line of dialogue. "So He has spoken, and so thou standest before me. Right as always." Who would be the He in this case?

as a total noob to the DnD lore, just from the vibes and the direct experience with withers

the way i understood him use He is in kind of "full of himself" way, when people refer to themselves in 3rd person
so him using "He" is him just being smug about being correct as always

and now after reading this thread and find more lore behind him, it honestly makes sense now to me that he would talk in such a way

dude is jergal
plus its very "pop" dnd game, like in holywood movies, i would suspect the devs would put actual jergal in game instead going for roundabout obscure way about it
just for the likes and edgyness

[SoloQ]

If you free yourself from Bhaal he's pretty much the hero of the story.

[Keldor]

Publicado originalmente por wendigo211:

If you play a paladin, when you first meet him there's an option to probe his power, if you're successful, the game suggests he may be a chosen (like Elminster). So he probably is either Jergal or the chosen of Jergal.

Last I heard though, Jergal was working as scribe for Kelemvor. That doesn't mean he can't be in two places at once.

Also if you play a Cleric. But it does require a 20 skill check (i forgot which skill) to find this out. And Withers gets a bit ornery when you manage to do this and question him on it. As he'll tell you not to speak on the matter again. Which makes me think that he's a Chosen and doesn't like people to know that. Or, more likely, isn't supposed to let people figure him out.

[Joe Morčovič]

Publicado originalmente por wendigo211:

If you play a paladin, when you first meet him there's an option to probe his power, if you're successful, the game suggests he may be a chosen (like Elminster). So he probably is either Jergal or the chosen of Jergal.

Last I heard though, Jergal was working as scribe for Kelemvor. That doesn't mean he can't be in two places at once.

If i do not mistake it with someone else, i think he literely told me he is just a scribe, so that's interesting