Those critical of BG3, what games did it better?

[Naamtar]

Would be interested in hearing what games you feel are of higher quality and possibly find some I've not heard of yet.

[Kain]

Originally posted by ChalkStorm:

Fallout: New Vegas handles its non-linearity far more adeptly, and its lack of RNG is objectively superior.

"objectively superior"

[Ellie ⁠≧⁠▽⁠≦]

♥♥♥♥ witcher 3 one of the most overrated piece of ♥♥♥♥ game ever to exist.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by ChalkStorm:

Pillars of Eternity 2 has a far superior main plot. Honestly, not even close.

I LOVE PoE 2 but the main plot was the weakest part of that game. It's very short, and it's just you showing up to places after the god has passed by and then an awkward ending.

Side quests and faction quests and companion quests and combat and exploration? Great.
Main plot? Ehhh personally nah.

[Seswatha]

Originally posted by ChalkStorm:

Dragon Age: Origins has significantly better writing, especially in its companions, although BG3's is good graded on a curve. This is especially apparent in the late-game.

Pillars of Eternity 2 has a far superior main plot. Honestly, not even close.

Tyranny has a much better world and setting.

The Witcher 3 is more atmospheric.

Mass Effect 2 and 3 have better gameplay and more engrossing sidequests.

Fallout: New Vegas handles its non-linearity far more adeptly, and its lack of RNG is objectively superior.

Dragon Age: Inquisition does a better job handling its romances and companions in general, especially in breathing life into the side characters.

Skyrim was less buggy on launch (lmao not even joking)

But none of these games have better combat, and they're all deficient in some major way relative to BG3 (Origins has horrible gameplay, Pillars has weak companions, The Witcher 3 has a bad main plot, Tyranny has no third act, New Vegas is New Vegas, Skyrim is a horrible piece of ♥♥♥♥, ME3 has a bad ending, and--well, ME2 is perfect.)

BG3 is good, but it's obviously not the kind of paradigm shift that everyone (who hasn't beaten it) keeps saying.

PoE has a better and more tightly balanced combat. PoE 1 especially, but 2 as well. Larian has a good thing going with fun combos and environmental effects but they can't balance it to actually make combat not a joke in any of their games.

I didn't care for PoE plot so much even though it wasn't bad, but Josh Sawyer knows what he's doing with these systems. Although the homogenisation of the classes in 2 to please the crowd whining about per rest abilities made 2 a lot less fun in my book.

[Immortal Reaver]

Originally posted by ChalkStorm:

Origins has horrible gameplay,

I enjoy DAO gameplay best out of all DA games to be honest. DA2 had worst encounter design (bandits dropping in from cliffs and roofs) and it reused areas way too much (do not care for same area later looking same or city, but dungeons were same). DAI got rid of tactics menu, added manual autoattacks, effectively got rid of mana, and made stats meaningless. Arguably worst in DAI was that as archer, melees would go back and forth because AI leash range was too small, so was range of tactical camera.

[Flat-Bread-FISH]

Solasta is a better table top like experience

[[GRVTS]Fat Bastard]

Originally posted by Tuna:

Originally posted by vann7:

Baldurs Gate 3 ,just like every game outther, have what its strong points and weak ones.

Baldurs Gate 3 PROS :
1) Extremely Rich Narrative story telling RPG adventure ,backed by good cinematic cutsences.
2) Very Awesome looking open world and character.
3) Very strong character customization and character development .
4) SUper Interesting Story branching system ,with multiple choices path and game endings.
5)Fantastic Music and game effects.

BG3 cons..
1) An outdated CAmera isometric system . games shouldn't be today , limited to looking down. Is very annoying to combat at times ,with the game camera isometric only view.
2) Semi outdated Combat Turn based system.

So baldurs Gate3 is a very good game , don't take me wrong. it will be in the list of top 10 best game ever. Highly Recommended. But is not perfect. There are other games that LARIAN STudios should pay attention and imitate the things others developers doing better.

Take for example DRAGON AGE INQUISITION.
Just like Baldurs Gate is a deep RPG very rich narrative story telling game , Just like BG3 it have mutliple path story selection and alternative endings ,Just like BG3 have ,very strong Character development with amazing graphics , this is a game released in 2014.
But contrary to BG3 , Dragon Age Inquisition have a REAL TIme Superior Combat mechanics system , with near Full freedom camera views , Is a Third Person Camera free view ,but it also allows you to play it from isometric like point of view for old school RPG video game fans. So that said ,, BAldurs Gate 3 should be compared to Dragon AGE inquisition. Dragon AGE Inq , should be an example for LARIAN STUDIOS , how much better the game could be , if they had a Real time combat system with far superior camera views.

Witcher 3 , is another game ,that is similar to BG3 , with same rich story telling and multipath selection and alternative endings , and romance options , just lik DAI too.
And combat in Witcher 3 even when is amateurish ,is also much more interesting ,than a turn based ,auto targeting dice roling system. Dice is interesting only for dialogues , but shouldnt be used today for every combat , this is not a board game ,. dice roll combat is definitely a step down in immersion in an rpg game.

Skyrim another master piece . It shows you can do an RPG with multiple choice selection on the story and endings , with romance options ,with very rich open world , and no turn based system. If those games can do it , LARIAN studios can do it too. and Give us , for next Baldurs Game a real time combat system , like so many other games outhere.

How good a combat and camera system can be ? Nothing better than Tera Online.
Still is available in COnsoles. it give you a full 360 degrees camera and can zoom all the way to character face or shows ,extremely close or up to 20 meters away in any angle .around the character. So you literary get cinematic like movies , by just moving the camera around when actually doing combat in the game.. Look at the second 0:24 in the next video of Tera Online ,an example of how is the combat and its camera system.

In tera online ,you could literary put the camera in any angle and distance from the character ,withing a 20 meter of distance , and you could play the game with the entire interface removed and film your character as if it was a movie action scene.
This helped significantly in the immersion in the game , and encouraged people to capture film all their games , for the cinematic real time experience.

https://youtu.be/srzQbYqc9nU

In summary BG3 is a very good game , but still is not as good as the legendary ones ,
like Kojima Games or Bioware lelgendary RPG Games ,Skirim , that do everything than do most of BG3 do but with superior combat and camera system and in a true full open world exploration.

Incomming RPG games that will be better than BG3 , ,add Starfield , Lords of Fallen 2 , Bethesta next gen Games and BIoware games and almost every korean or japanese or chinese online RPG games.

"semi outdated combat"
Dude, I keep hearing people complain about the combat and almost acting like it's some weird proprietary stuff that larian made up....it's literally just dungeons and dragons, it's not "outdated" it is dungeons and dragons, calling fifth edition dungeons and dragons combat "semi outdated" is insane to me.

5th edition is kinda the most bland milktoast version of DnD combat I've ever experienced. In my opinion it's outdated whereas 3.5 was ahead of its time.

[Seswatha]

Originally posted by Immortal Reaver:

Originally posted by ChalkStorm:

Origins has horrible gameplay,

I enjoy DAO gameplay best out of all DA games to be honest. DA2 had worst encounter design (bandits dropping in from cliffs and roofs) and it reused areas way too much (do not care for same area later looking same or city, but dungeons were same). DAI got rid of tactics menu, added manual autoattacks, effectively got rid of mana, and made stats meaningless. Arguably worst in DAI was that as archer, melees would go back and forth because AI leash range was too small, so was range of tactical camera.

I agree, Origins had by far the best combat system of all DAs. For one it had a working tactical camera so you could actually control the entire party easily without it feeling like a chore. Secondly it was back when Bioware actually cared about making a good combat and levelling system. DA2 and DA:I came to mimic Mass Effect style experience in DA universe but still somehow trying to keep controlling the whole party as a feature, and also brought horrendous balancing with Bioware not caring in the slightest to try to actually fix combat, because it seemed like their target audience is people playing the game as a dating sim on easy and picking random stuff on levelups.

[Big]

Originally posted by Lashane The Phantom:

in this unusual sub type of rpg genre? none. and i loved Original Sin 2. but so far this wipes out even that. The production value is insane and the graphics beautiful. im most impressed however the character models actually look really damn human with some ever so light stylisytic flair. very rare for a western dev team to get this right. mortal kombat for example, the character models always looked ugly and still do.

Still cant believe MK1 looks as good as it does Netherrealm is gonna be making some crazy ♥♥♥♥ when they go to UE5. Little salty no Injustice tho : (

[Crom]

Originally posted by Naamtar:

Would be interested in hearing what games you feel are of higher quality and possibly find some I've not heard of yet.

Try to play other games. Baldurs Gate 3 is your first game. Thats ok. Its very nice game. But combat is one of the worst...

[lazarusblack]

Originally posted by ChalkStorm:

Dragon Age: Origins has significantly better writing, especially in its companions, although BG3's is good graded on a curve. This is especially apparent in the late-game.

Pillars of Eternity 2 has a far superior main plot. Honestly, not even close.

Tyranny has a much better world and setting.

The Witcher 3 is more atmospheric.

Mass Effect 2 and 3 have better gameplay and more engrossing sidequests.

Fallout: New Vegas handles its non-linearity far more adeptly, and its lack of RNG is objectively superior.

Dragon Age: Inquisition does a better job handling its romances and companions in general, especially in breathing life into the side characters.

Skyrim was less buggy on launch (lmao not even joking)

But none of these games have better combat, and they're all deficient in some major way relative to BG3 (Origins has horrible gameplay, Pillars has weak companions, The Witcher 3 has a bad main plot, Tyranny has no third act, New Vegas is New Vegas, Skyrim is a horrible piece of ♥♥♥♥, ME3 has a bad ending, and--well, ME2 is perfect.)

BG3 is good, but it's obviously not the kind of paradigm shift that everyone (who hasn't beaten it) keeps saying.

Agree with much of this, if not in specifics then in principle however, when it comes to BG3's combat. I find it beyond boring. Regardless of class. A couple of lurches in difficulty and some terrible artificial difficulty on Larians part, through use of enemy positioning to make party approach difficult without foreknowledge of encounters. But generally I've come to agree with...

Originally posted by GRVTSFat Bastard:

5th edition is kinda the most bland milktoast version of DnD combat I've ever experienced. In my opinion it's outdated whereas 3.5 was ahead of its time.

... this.

5e is not much fun combat wise and Larians hybrid DoS 5e combat seems to wed the shortcomings of both and the virtues of neither.

Originally posted by Seswatha:

Originally posted by Immortal Reaver:

I enjoy DAO gameplay best out of all DA games to be honest. DA2 had worst encounter design (bandits dropping in from cliffs and roofs) and it reused areas way too much (do not care for same area later looking same or city, but dungeons were same). DAI got rid of tactics menu, added manual autoattacks, effectively got rid of mana, and made stats meaningless. Arguably worst in DAI was that as archer, melees would go back and forth because AI leash range was too small, so was range of tactical camera.

I agree, Origins had by far the best combat system of all DAs. For one it had a working tactical camera so you could actually control the entire party easily without it feeling like a chore. Secondly it was back when Bioware actually cared about making a good combat and levelling system. DA2 and DA:I came to mimic Mass Effect style experience in DA universe but still somehow trying to keep controlling the whole party as a feature, and also brought horrendous balancing with Bioware not caring in the slightest to try to actually fix combat, because it seemed like their target audience is people playing the game as a dating sim on easy and picking random stuff on levelups.

Do you remember how you could fine tune companions AI behaviour to a high degree in Origins? Below 50% health use a potion, attack closest spell caster, attack chosen characters attacker. All set up in amazing little commands that were surprisingly effective and allowed you to spec companions and make sure they behaved according to those specs while you did your own thing.

Never seen that repeated since.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by lazarusblack:

Originally posted by Seswatha:

I agree, Origins had by far the best combat system of all DAs. For one it had a working tactical camera so you could actually control the entire party easily without it feeling like a chore. Secondly it was back when Bioware actually cared about making a good combat and levelling system. DA2 and DA:I came to mimic Mass Effect style experience in DA universe but still somehow trying to keep controlling the whole party as a feature, and also brought horrendous balancing with Bioware not caring in the slightest to try to actually fix combat, because it seemed like their target audience is people playing the game as a dating sim on easy and picking random stuff on levelups.

Do you remember how you could fine tune companions AI behaviour to a high degree in Origins? Below 50% health use a potion, attack closest spell caster, attack chosen characters attacker. All set up in amazing little commands that were surprisingly effective and allowed you to spec companions and make sure they behaved according to those specs while you did your own thing.

Never seen that repeated since.

Play PoE 2 then, it has a better version of this.

[Cooperal]

The only game that I think arguably does SOME things better is DOS2 but I'll finish forming my opinion when I have finished this game. While DOS2 isn't exactly DnD the inspiration is undeniable, just instead of cramming DnD rules into a videogame they had their own bespoke mythos and ruleset designed for a videogame from the ground up.

It's all subjective of course but I think DOS2 wins when it comes to chaotic combat. Spells only rely on cooldowns and environmental effects are a much bigger thing. I also think DOS2 has a much greater number of bangers (memorable musical tracks). And I think I preferred its UI practically wholesale.

It is like comparing two different flavours of ice cream, neither of which you would want to imagine an existence without.

[Malkav]

Wrath of the Righteous. But Pathfinder is better than D&D in every way.

[Maverick56]

Originally posted by Naamtar:

Would be interested in hearing what games you feel are of higher quality and possibly find some I've not heard of yet.

In my opinion BG2.

if you want something a little more...modern. Pathfinder Kingmaker. Both of those games make your choices matter.